Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 >"Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava >Recently, there was a discussion on this list regarding "the Soul and when >it enters in to the human body"... I referred our "Aitareya Brahmana" in >that context. I mentioned that a Samaveda Pundit has to play "veena" >instrument in the background during the "seemantam" function. [Article delete for brevity] Is there really something like Soul (that is birthless, deathless) entering in to the human body? Or is it more like human body entering the Soul? In Vedanta, relationship between an individual soul/self ("Jeevatma") and Cosmic Soul/Self ("Paramatma") is compared with the relationship of space in a pot ("pot space") to that of the "universal space". So it is like asking when did universal space become pot space? We know pot is born, exists and returns in space. So too if Soul is birthless, deathless, changeless it exists before the human body takes birth and continues to exist while and after human body grows and dies. Another analogy I found of value is that of wave and ocean. Wave represents an individual and ocean the Soul. If a wave asks "when did ocean enter the wave?" what answer can be said? From the point of view of Ocean there are no waves, it is just ocean alone all along and there is nothing but ocean! In fact all waves take birth, rise and fall into ocean alone. So too with individual and Soul, isn't it? With regards Hari Om! -Srinivas Nagulapalli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 > > Srinivas Nagulapalli [sMTP:snagul] > Wednesday, June 30, 1999 1:20 AM > advaitin > Soul entering human body > > Srinivas Nagulapalli <snagul > > >"Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava > >Recently, there was a discussion on this list regarding "the Soul and > when > >it enters in to the human body"... I referred our "Aitareya Brahmana" in > >that context. I mentioned that a Samaveda Pundit has to play "veena" > >instrument in the background during the "seemantam" function. > [Article delete for brevity] > > Is there really something like Soul (that is birthless, deathless) > entering in to the human body? Or is it more like human body entering > the Soul? [Madhava Replies:] Dear Srinivas, Thanks for your reply. Actually, the mail that I wrote about "Soul entering the body" was a reply to somebody's question. Our Bodhayana, Apastamba, ASwalAyana and other sutrakara's are saying that the "Soul enters the body" and a ceremony to perform in that regard. I mentioned it since it is already there in our sacred books. Now the question "is it the soul entering the body, or the body entering the soul".... a very good question. Before we understand this question we need to understand the Advaitic Point of view towards the world (i.e. the reality that we perceive.) nAsatO vidyatE bhAvO nAbhAvO vidyatE sataH ubahayOrapi dRshTOMtaH stvanayO tatva daRSibhI || B.G. 2-16 That which is not real (asat) never exists and that which is real will never cease to exist. Those who are seers of the truth have concluded this by studying the nature of both. "brahma satyaM jagat midhya - jeevO brahmaiva nAparaH" - Brahman alone is real, every thing else is not real, verily jeeva himself is Brahman. Because we can't ignore the reality that we perceive, they also said that the world has got the "relative reality" (vyAvahArika satta). As long as you (the individual experiencer) are there, you perceive the world as real. It is like a dream, as long as you are dreaming; you can't realize that there is a wakeful state... You can see an elephant in your dream, which may be 50 times bigger than your size. There should be a space bigger than the elephant, in *you*, in order to accommodate the elephant and its surroundings -- in your dream. Our seers called the space in you as "cidAkASa". Paradoxically, though we perceive the world as *real*, it is still *unreal*. Since the "relative reality" of the world has been accepted, our seers tried to take us near to the experience through all those books and moral codes. > In Vedanta, relationship between an > individual soul/self ("Jeevatma") and Cosmic Soul/Self ("Paramatma") > is compared with the relationship of space in a pot ("pot space") > to that of the "universal space". So it is like asking when > did universal space become pot space? We know pot is born, exists > and returns in space. > So too if Soul is birthless, deathless, > changeless it exists before the human body takes birth and continues > to exist while and after human body grows and dies. Another analogy > I found of value is that of wave and ocean. Wave represents an > individual and ocean the Soul. If a wave asks "when did ocean enter > the wave?" what answer can be said? From the point of view of Ocean > there are no waves, it is just ocean alone all along and there is > nothing but ocean! In fact all waves take birth, rise and fall into > ocean alone. So too with individual and Soul, isn't it? [Madhava Replies:] advaita is a pure state that can't be described. In order to describe that which can't be described, our seers have tried to apply many methods. The examples of Waves-and-Ocean, Pot space and Space --- all these are examples that take us closer to the reality. Their usage stops at certain point, we go beyond all that, where all examples cease to exist... "tatrOparamaM SaMtaM SivaM *advaitaM* caturdhaM manyaMtE" - bRhadAraNyakOpanishattu. > With regards > Hari Om! > -Srinivas Nagulapalli > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Who is the most visited e-mail list community Web Service? > > ONElist.com - where more than 20 million e-mails are exchanged each day! > > ------ > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available > at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 1999 Report Share Posted June 30, 1999 At 01:20 PM 6/30/99 +0300, you wrote: >"Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava >Now the question "is it the soul entering the body, or the body entering the >soul".... a very good question. Before we understand this question we need >to understand the Advaitic Point of view towards the world (i.e. the reality >that we perceive.) I think it can be said that the soul enters the human body. It can also be said that the body enters the soul. With equal validity, it can also be stated that neither of these are occurring, that nothing is happening, that there is no birth or death. Hari OM, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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