Comparison Between Indian (I) and Western (W) Religious Thoughts.

July 16, 1999

Creation of the Universe :

(I): The universe exists in endless cycles of creation, preservation,

and destruction. There is no absolute end to the world, neither is

there a duality of God and world, but a unity.

(W): The world was created by God at some point in time. In future it

will be forever destroyed by Him. He is distinct from it, and rules it

from above. Stresses a dualistic nature of the world.

The True God :

(I): There is but one true and absolute Self or God. All souls are

destined to receive Liberation or God's grace through experience on many

paths according to their understanding, temperament, and maturity, God

is pure love and consciousness.

(W): There is but one true God and one true religion. Those who accept

it will enjoy God's grace. All others, unless they repent and come to

God, will suffer eternally in Hell. God is loving as well as wrathful.

Proof of God :

(I): Proof of God's love and His existence lies in direct communion with

Him, and indirectly through the enlightened Guru (teacher) and the

revealed scriptures.

(W): Proof of God's love and promise for man is in the Prophets and in

His unchanging and unique revealed scripture.

Knowing God :

(I): Personal, inner, and often mystical experience of God is the crux

of religion. Man can and ultimately must know God during earthly life.

Knowledge of God is individually oriented and introspective.

(W): It is essential for man to seek personal knowledge of God. The

linchpin of religion is not experience but belief and faith, coupled

with a virtuous life. It is socially oriented and extroverted.

Paths to God :

(I): Man is free to choose his form of worship, for all paths lead

ultimately to God. Sin is only of the mind, not of the soul, which is

pure. There is no Judgment Day for God does not judge or punish.

(W): Only one path leads to God, others are false and futile. Everyone

must convert to the one true religion. If this is not done, the soul,

laden with sin, will be damned on Judgment Day.

Man's Plight :

(I): Man's suffering is due to his soul's ignorance. He is ever on a

progressive path which leads from ignorance to knowledge, from death to

immortality.

(W): Man's plight is due to disobedience to God's will, to nonbelief

and non accepting of His law.

Hell :

(I): God is Love and is inextricably one with the soul, guiding it

through karma into the religion (Dharma) and finally to liberation. Hell

is a lower astral realm, it is not eternal. It exists as a period of

Karmic intensity or suffering, a state of mind in life or between lives.

(W): On Judgment Day the physical body of every soul that ever lived is

brought to life. God consigns pure souls to heaven and sinners to Hell,

a physical place where the body burns without being consumed and one

suffers the anguish of knowing he will never be with God.

Evil :

(I): There is no intrinsic evil, all is good and all is God. No force

in the world or in man opposes God, though the veiling instinctive

intellectual mind keeps us from knowledge of Him.

(W): There is indeed genuine evil in the world, a living force which

opposes God's will. This evil is embodied in Satan and his demons, and

partially in man as one of his tendencies.

Salvation :

(I): Salvation is through self realization or strict obedience to God's

will and the descent of His grace through the enlightened spiritual

preceptor.

(W): Salvation is through strict obedience to God's will, usually

through a messiah, prophet, or priest.

Conduct :

(I): Moral living is essential to spiritual progress. Unrighteous

thoughts, words, and deeds keep one from liberation.

(W): Religion must be based on ethical and moral conduct, for the

opposite leads one away from God.

Virtue :

(I): Virtuous conduct and right belief are the foundation of religious

life, the first step toward higher mystical communion. Liberation

requires knowledge and personal attainment, not mere belief.

(W): If one obeys God's commands for a moral and ethical life and

believes in Him and in His Prophets, for example, Moses, Jesus,

Mohammad, or Zoroaster, salvation is assured.

Destiny :

(I): The purpose of life is to evolve, through experience, into higher

spiritual destiny. Things of the world are not the purpose of the

world.

(W): Man's destiny lies beyond this world, which is but an opportunity

for earning eternal joy or suffering.

Religion Origin :

(I): Religion is cosmic, eternal, transcending human history, which is

cyclical. Stress is placed on revelation of God's presence in the here

and now.

(W): Religion is historical, beginning with a prophet or event. Stress

is on the past and on future rewards or punishments. History is linear,

never to be repeated.

Reality :

(I): There is more to reality than we experience with the five senses.

The soul is immortal, deathless, eternal, and ultimately liberated from

rebirth.

(W): There is more to reality than the things of this world. The soul

is immortal, deathless, eternal, and living forever in God's presence or

separated from Him in Hell.

Doctrine :

(I): Doctrines tend to be subtle, complex, and even paradoxical. Freedom

to worship and to believe in a variety of ways is predominant. Other

paths are accepted as God's divine will at work. It is universal and

tolerant.

(W): Doctrines tend to be simple, clear, and rational. Worship and

belief are formalized, exacting, and required. Other paths are endured,

but not honored. It is exclusivist and dogmatic.

Enlightenment :

(I): The goals of enlightenment and liberation are to be found in this

life, within the context of time and within man himself. Beliefs may be

dual or nondual.

(W): Salvation comes at the end of the world, at the end of time, and

has nothing to do with enlightenment. It is strictly dualistic. Minor

mystical sects, provide exceptions.

Sainthood:

(I): The path to saintliness is through self discipline, purification,

concentration and contemplation. Value is placed on ascetic ideals,

individual religious practice (Sadhana), yoga, and super conscious

awakening.

(W): Path to saintliness is through self-sacrifice, submission to God

and concern for others. Value is placed on good works, social concerns,

and scriptural study, with little emphasis on yoga and meditation.

Worships :

(I): Worship is individual, highly ritualistic, and meditative. It

centers around the temple and home shrine all days of the week.

(W): Worship is congregational, simple in its rituals, centering around

the church, synagogue, or mosque, mostly on a Sabbath day.

July 16, 1999

At 03:31 PM 7/16/99 -0400, you wrote:

>Ram Chandran <chandran

>

>Comparison Between Indian (I) and Western (W) Religious Thoughts.

This is largely accurate (unless you consider that Indian thought is

increasingly penetrating the West as well), but it looks only at the

differences, not at the similarities. There are also many similarities,

because man's innate drive is to be with God. So I would call this an

accurate but unbalanced comparison. If one looks for differences, one

finds differences. If one looks for similarities, similarities are found.

Hari OM,

Tim

-----

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July 16, 1999

Hari Om Tim:

Your assertions are quite right and I agree with them. When I visit India, my

friends and relatives always say : "Ram, you haven't changed!" Many times I

wanted to tell them, that - " you have changed," but

was afraid to tell. India is fast changing to western habits and the Indians

like me who moved to this country try our level best to keep our traditions and

culture. It is mostly true. In the United

States, we have several christian friends whom we respect their open-mindedness,

forgiving nature, hard-working habits and willingness to help at time of need.

Both in the East and West have great

opportunity now to exchange ideas, learn and adopt to better of both these

cultures. Thanks again for your kind words,

regards,

Ram

July 18, 1999

Dear Shri Ram Chandran,

In comparing religious thoughts it is important to compare what the relevant

texts actually say and not the texts of one system with the practices of

another. I felt towards the end that you were including the teachings of The

Christ as belonging to Western religious thought. May be you meant to

compare with the religious thought West of India, though even in this case

there are some who say He visited India as well. On a Sunday morning, some

selective comments below to reflect the indentical nature of the teachings

of Christ with so called Indian religious thought.

Affectionately,

----Viswanath

>

>Ram Chandran <chandran

>

>Comparison Between Indian (I) and Western (W) Religious Thoughts.

>

>Creation of the Universe :

>(I): The universe exists in endless cycles of creation, preservation,

>and destruction. There is no absolute end to the world, neither is

>there a duality of God and world, but a unity.

>

>(W): The world was created by God at some point in time. In future it

>will be forever destroyed by Him. He is distinct from it, and rules it

>from above. Stresses a dualistic nature of the world.

Here is a psalm that destroys the concept of duality.

Psalm 139:

"Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee frm thy

presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in

hell, behold thou art there…….the darkness and the light are both alike to

thee".

>Knowing God :

>(I): Personal, inner, and often mystical experience of God is the crux

>of religion. Man can and ultimately must know God during earthly life.

>Knowledge of God is individually oriented and introspective.

>

>(W): It is essential for man to seek personal knowledge of God. The

>linchpin of religion is not experience but belief and faith, coupled

>with a virtuous life. It is socially oriented and extroverted.

Jesus does mention explicitly how one should pray and he emphasises the

inner experience.

"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites who love to stand and pray in

the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. ....But

when you pray, go to your " inner room" (quotes mine!), close the door, and

pray to your Father in secret. ...In praying, do not babble like the pagans,

who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be

like them". (Matthew 6:8)

>Hell :

>(I): God is Love and is inextricably one with the soul, guiding it

>through karma into the religion (Dharma) and finally to liberation. Hell

>is a lower astral realm, it is not eternal. It exists as a period of

>Karmic intensity or suffering, a state of mind in life or between lives.

>

>(W): On Judgment Day the physical body of every soul that ever lived is

>brought to life. God consigns pure souls to heaven and sinners to Hell,

>a physical place where the body burns without being consumed and one

>suffers the anguish of knowing he will never be with God.

Firstly, the body is not given much importance in the Bible.

"It is the Spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail." (John

6:53)

Further, there is not such a clear demarcation of Heaven and Hell as

commonly believed. In addition to the above Psalm we have.

"The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed, and no one will

announce 'Look, here it is,' or 'There it is.' For behold, the kingdom of

God is among you". (Luke 17:20)

>Evil :

>(I): There is no intrinsic evil, all is good and all is God. No force

>in the world or in man opposes God, though the veiling instinctive

>intellectual mind keeps us from knowledge of Him.

>

This is true at one level. At another level, we have the case where Hindu

avatars (Rama, Krishna et al) come with a mission to kill evil doers. This

is certainly a contrast with Buddhist and Christian avatars who supposedly

come only as Saviours to humanity. This is however not the subject of your

comments and I will digress no further.

>Virtue :

>(I): Virtuous conduct and right belief are the foundation of religious

>life, the first step toward higher mystical communion. Liberation

>requires knowledge and personal attainment, not mere belief.

>

>(W): If one obeys God's commands for a moral and ethical life and

>believes in Him and in His Prophets, for example, Moses, Jesus,

>Mohammad, or Zoroaster, salvation is assured.

Again, Jesus himself does say differently. Mere belief does not result in

salvation/liberation.

"Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of

heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will

say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we

not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'

Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you.'

(Matthew 7:21)

"This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me ;

in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts."

>Enlightenment :

>(I): The goals of enlightenment and liberation are to be found in this

>life, within the context of time and within man himself. Beliefs may be

>dual or nondual.

>

>(W): Salvation comes at the end of the world, at the end of time, and

>has nothing to do with enlightenment. It is strictly dualistic. Minor

>mystical sects, provide exceptions.

The Bible itself is neither dualistic nor does it separate salvation with

liberation.

"I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM." (John 8:58)

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but

by me". (John 14:6)

"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in

you". (John 14:20).

And of course "Be still, and know that I am God".

laxmi.l · March 3, 2009

>

>Ram Chandran <chandran

>

>Comparison Between Indian (I) and Western (W) Religious Thoughts.

>

>Creation of the Universe :

>(I): The universe exists in endless cycles of creation, preservation,

>and destruction. There is no absolute end to the world, neither is

>there a duality of God and world, but a unity.

>

>(W): The world was created by God at some point in time. In future it

>will be forever destroyed by Him. He is distinct from it, and rules it

>from above. Stresses a dualistic nature of the world.</chandran

Here is a psalm that destroys the concept of duality.

Psalm 139:

"Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee frm thy

presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in

hell, behold thou art there…….the darkness and the light are both alike to

thee".

One of the oldest Schools of Indian Philosophy "Samkhya" stresses the dualistic nature of the world too. It does not talk of destruction neither does it of God's rule, nevertheless it stresses duality and Vendanta probably had its beginnings from Samkhya.