Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 Hi, I've begun to feel like the world offers little and want nothing from it but a place to meditate and the simplest provisions. If I was in my twenties I would become a monk but I'm 45 now and it seems there is an age restriction. Do know of any conducive situations for what I seek? I include an excerpt from a free book on the internet by Sw.Sivananda on the incompatibility of meditation and ordinary householder lifestyles. It seems true enough to my experience... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When you advance in the spiritual practice, it will be very difficult for you to do meditation and office work at the same time, because the mind will undergo double strain. Those who practise meditation will find that they are more sensitive than the people who do not meditate and, because of that, the strain on the physical body is enormous. The mind works in different grooves and channels with different Samskaras during meditation. It finds it very difficult to adjust to different kinds of uncongenial activities. As soon as it comes down from the meditation, it gropes in darkness. It gets bewildered and puzzled. The Prana (energy) which moves inward in different grooves and channels and which is subtle during the meditation has to move in new, different channels during worldly activities. It becomes very gross during work. It has to work in different grooves and channels. When you again sit for meditation in the evening, you will have to struggle hard to wipe out the newly acquired Samskaras you have gathered during the course of the day and get calm and one-pointedness of mind. This struggle sometimes brings in headache. It behoves, therefore, that advanced Grihastha Yogic students (householders) will have to stop all the worldly activities when they advance in meditation, if they desire to progress further. They themselves will be forced to give up all work, if they are really sincere. Work is a hindrance in meditation for advanced students. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 1999 Report Share Posted July 27, 1999 Hello ac: I do not know of any ashram that would be conducive to a life of meditation as any that I know of also requires work/seva/tasks and generally there will be challenges living in a community. Seems to me that the only way to have a life free of the world would be to have an independent income with which to create your own 'cave'. With regard to the excerpt that you included that is a rather 'negative' viewpoint. A person with true detachment, a strong aura and physical body should be able to be around any situation and not be thrown into a lower vibration. There are many things that can be done to keep the vibrations of others from affecting you. A strong physical routine of yoga, tai chi, karate will work to keep the nadis and aura positive and clear. Conscious breathing, silent mantra, certain foods, aromatherapy, visualization and even stones or the colors one chooses to wear can work to protect one's energy field. There is a challenge to meditation and a spiritual path but it is only a challenge. It is the challenge that your karma or soul mandated as a 'householder' for this lifetime. IMHO it is fairly naive to think that escaping from the world makes the journey any easier - it is just a different path with different challenges. Linda >Hi, >I've begun to feel like the world offers little and want nothing from it but a >place to meditate and the simplest provisions. If I was in my twenties I >would become a monk but I'm 45 now and it seems there is an age restriction. >Do know of any conducive situations for what I seek? >I include an excerpt from a free book on the internet by Sw.Sivananda on the >incompatibility of meditation and ordinary householder lifestyles. It seems >true enough to my experience... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When you advance in the spiritual practice, it will be very difficult for you to do meditation and office work at the same time, because the mind will undergo double strain. Those who practise meditation will find that they are more sensitive than the people who do not meditate and, because of that, the strain on the physical body is enormous. The mind works in different grooves and channels with different Samskaras during meditation. It finds it very difficult to adjust to different kinds of uncongenial activities. As soon as it comes down from the meditation, it gropes in darkness. It gets bewildered and puzzled. The Prana (energy) which moves inward in different grooves and channels and which is subtle during the meditation has to move in new, different channels during worldly activities. It becomes very gross during work. It has to work in different grooves and channels. When you again sit for meditation in the evening, you will have to struggle hard to wipe out the newly acquired Samskaras you have gathered during the course of the day and get calm and one-pointedness of mind. This struggle sometimes brings in headache. It behoves, therefore, that advanced Grihastha Yogic students (householders) will have to stop all the worldly activities when they advance in meditation, if they desire to progress further. They themselves will be forced to give up all work, if they are really sincere. Work is a hindrance in meditation for advanced students. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Congratulations to MICHELLE UNSER This week's FRIENDS&FAMILY WINNER! To enter go to /info/onereachsplash3.html ------ Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 a c wrote: > > I've begun to feel like the world offers little and want nothing from it but a > place to meditate and the simplest provisions. If I was in my twenties I > would become a monk but I'm 45 now and it seems there is an age restriction. > Do know of any conducive situations for what I seek? > > I include an excerpt from a free book on the internet by Sw.Sivananda on the > incompatibility of meditation and ordinary householder lifestyles. It seems > true enough to my experience... > there are a number of instances where i disagree with Sivananda--this being one of them. not to say that his teachings aren't of value; quite the contrary. even presumable jnanis can differ in their ideologies and teaching methods, for numerous reasons... as far as being too old, that's also a complete misunderstanding. (i'm 51) i agree with Linda Callahan's response re the grihastha and some of the things that can be done to counteract one's dharana problems amidst distractions.. Ramana, for example, used to say that the grihastha has a great advantage over most! he would *usually* turn people away from staying at the ashram in lieu of performing their household duties. he would say that, under such circumstances, one can be tested in ways that are conducive to the greatest growth, especially in terms of the attenuation or purifying of the Mind. namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Dear Frank & all, > >as far as being too old, that's also a >complete misunderstanding. (i'm 51) > The only 2 orders ordaining westerners which I know of both say it must happen early in life. One specifies before age 25. Please tell me more specifically about my "complete misunderstanding" because it comes as good news to me. You mention being 51 in this context and I wonder why -- are you a sannyasin or planning on it? >i agree with Linda Callahan's response >re the grihastha and some of the things >that can be done to counteract one's >dharana problems amidst distractions.. >Ramana, for example, used to say that >the grihastha has a great advantage >over most! he would *usually* turn >people away from staying at the ashram >in lieu of performing their household >duties. he would say that, under such >circumstances, one can be tested in >ways that are conducive to the greatest >growth, especially in terms of the >attenuation or purifying of the Mind. > When we meditate we do not usually leave the TV, stereo and radio on. We might try it once or twice just to "test" ourselves but you'd have to be crazy to choose it as a regular routine. Life "in the world" is like TV -- a noisy waste of time. Yes, its "influence" can be overcome but why waste that energy *if* you can just unplug it? ( By the way - I don't watch TV! :-)) If you doubt there's a good reason to "leave the world" just think back on how many meditation masters, saints, etc. were recluse hermits, sannyasins, etc. and how many were householders. The ratio is about 10 to 1 isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 ac wrote: >If you doubt there's a good reason to "leave the world" just think back on >how many meditation masters, saints, etc. were recluse hermits, sannyasins, >etc. and how many were householders. The ratio is about 10 to 1 isn't it? How many of those "saints" still depended on householders? About ten to one, I'd guess... - Art Gregory lgregory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, a c wrote: > a c <ac > > Hi, > > I've begun to feel like the world offers little and want nothing from it but a > place to meditate and the simplest provisions. If I was in my twenties I > would become a monk but I'm 45 now and it seems there is an age restriction. > Do know of any conducive situations for what I seek? > > I include an excerpt from a free book on the internet by Sw.Sivananda on the > incompatibility of meditation and ordinary householder lifestyles. It seems > true enough to my experience... > namaste. It is good to be back on the List after a few weeks absence. I agree with Frank in that I do not agree with Swami Sivananda's assessment (which you appended to your post) on this topic. I was under the same impression as you stated, a few years ago. But I realized that meditation is not when you sit in a corner room thinking aham brahmAsmi, and trying to get the mind into a single focus. That may be the beginning stages of meditation. I recognized that one can meditate while brushing the teeth, while showering, while commuting, and even while working. Meditation is a state of the mind. Meditation results in the purity of the soul. That is, when no evil or bad thoughts enter into the mind. In between teaching (I teach at a University), concentrate the mind on the personal God, or on good thoughts. I recognized that meditation is not a 45minute/day deal on the meditation seat but a 24-hour/day enjoyment. For that, gr^hastha or sannyAsa does not matter. It is a state of the mind. With this, the time is at our control, and we are at a most relaxed state all the time. I find, being gr^hastha is not an impediment. Regards Gummuluru Murthy ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 a c wrote: > > The only 2 orders ordaining westerners which I know of both say it must > happen early in life. One specifies before age 25. Please tell me more > specifically about my "complete misunderstanding" because it comes as good > news to me. You mention being 51 in this context and I wonder why -- are > you a sannyasin or planning on it? > obviously it is one's perogative to put faith or not in a given institution. in my opinion, it is valid to put faith ultimately in the guru in one's Heart-- provided of course if such connection is sensed to have been established. this view has also been, subsequently in my time, reinforced for me by sages like Ramana and Buddha, who have emphatically entreated us to rely, ultimately, on the wisdom of the Heart (i.e. the Self). my karma led me to live like a sannyasin without taking any formal initiation. however, it grew more out of not desiring naturally, than doing it in the form of any sacrifice. > >i agree with Linda Callahan's response > >re the grihastha and some of the things > >that can be done to counteract one's > >dharana problems amidst distractions.. > >Ramana, for example, used to say that > >the grihastha has a great advantage > >over most! he would *usually* turn > >people away from staying at the ashram > >in lieu of performing their household > >duties. he would say that, under such > >circumstances, one can be tested in > >ways that are conducive to the greatest > >growth, especially in terms of the > >attenuation or purifying of the Mind. > > > > When we meditate we do not usually leave the TV, stereo and radio on. We > might try it once or twice just to "test" ourselves but you'd have to be > crazy to choose it as a regular routine. Life "in the world" is like TV > -- a noisy waste of time. Yes, its "influence" can be overcome but why > waste that energy *if* you can just unplug it? ( By the way - I don't > watch TV! :-)) > > If you doubt there's a good reason to "leave the world" just think back on > how many meditation masters, saints, etc. were recluse hermits, sannyasins, > etc. and how many were householders. The ratio is about 10 to 1 isn't it? > my experience has shown me there's really no difference at all. the Mind is the only *real* potential enemy "in or out of this world picture." this is something else: i am ever in meditation now. even when hungry, angry, sad or fearful. all these moods are only brahman's lila. they are not specifically who i am; only infintesimal fragments of my totality...*our* totality. yes! we are, in truth, *all* in meditation, at all times. lest the world would collapse! namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 1999 Report Share Posted July 28, 1999 Dear Gummuluru, Frank, & all, > >I was under the same impression as you stated, a few years ago. But >I realized that meditation is not when you sit in a corner room thinking >aham brahmAsmi, and trying to get the mind into a single focus. That may >be the beginning stages of meditation. I recognized that one can meditate >while brushing the teeth, while showering, while commuting, and even >while working. > Congratulations on your success. I'm not that advanced. I do notice a change which seems caused by some environments so I endeavor to avoid the ones which are too noisy, false, etc.. On the other hand, I've met someone who occasionally ate glass, shit, etc. because to this person everything was Brahman. This person can also just not eat or sleep at all because Brahman is never hungry or tired. So I know such things are possible - but not for me at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 1999 Report Share Posted July 29, 1999 Different sages hold different perspectives according to their background and understanding. Ramana Maharshi always pointed out that it was not the environment but maturity of the mind that was the critical factor in "winning" Jnana. Swami Sivananda emphasized that the environment must be made conducive to meditaion. Perhaps both view points are different sides of the same coin. Sri Ramana's teaching, it seems to me, is less forced, gentle and more compassionate, taking into account the diversity of human tendencies and behavior, yet seeing the same Self in all. Swami Sivananda was also a man of great compassion in his own way. Interestingly, Swami Sivananda became a renunciate when he was around 37. He was formerly a medical doctor. He continued to be active in promoting healthy ways of living and established an ashram and a dispensary for distributing medicine to Sadhus and other people who needed it. Swami Sivananda was active in service and has written comprehensively on various branches of yoga, Vedanta, tantra, etc. He was apparently an extremely sweet and accommodating person who used to give healing and spiritual mantras even by mail and did that with my father who often corresponded with him in the 1950s. I bow to the teachings of the great sages who point to the Reality of the Self in all traditions. Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 1999 Report Share Posted July 29, 1999 Dear all, > >Different sages hold different perspectives according to their background >and understanding. Ramana Maharshi always pointed out that it was not the >environment but maturity of the mind that was the critical factor in >"winning" Jnana. > hmmm.... as it seems unlikely the world will adapt to my own ideas of what might be conducive to spiritual progress -- I think I'll get to work on the "maturity of mind" angle... :-)) Thanks to all for helping put this in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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