The Absence of oneself

[Guest guest]

a c <ac

 

My own approach is not as intellectual as you might assume. My question

wasn't so much "who am I?" but "what knows this?" From repeated

experience, I can say true awareness of oneself is the awareness of one's

own abscence because in that moment there is awareness but no object or

subject of awareness (other than that awareness itself).

 

Harsha: This makes sense. Your comments go to the very heart of the issue of

the nature of perception. Is this absence of oneself, the Presence of

Fullness of Awareness that is Sat-Chit-Ananda that the Upanishads speak of?

It might be worthwhile exploring it as your insights have great value. The

Experience of Self is Self-Confirming and requires no "external authority."

Sages and Scriptures are clear and consistent on this topic. That the nature

of Self is Self-Delight, Pure Self Awareness, Supreme Satisfaction, The

Essence of Completion. The Self has absolutely no longing for anything what

so ever, is beyond all thought and doubt, and is Whole and Complete. Perhaps

you can give your views on such words to convey the nature of the Self.

[Guest guest]

At 03:57 PM 8/3/99 -0400, you wrote:

>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

>Harsha: This makes sense. Your comments go to the very heart of the issue of

>the nature of perception. Is this absence of oneself, the Presence of

>Fullness of Awareness that is Sat-Chit-Ananda that the Upanishads speak of?

>

 

I can't speak on behalf of the Upanishads. I can say when there is

awareness without object or subject (apart from that awareness itself) it

might well be described as the Upanishads do. It is like pure luminous

self-cognizing space without dimension or any sense of here or there,

before or after. There is nothing but this nothing seems brim full of

energy or potential yet perfect, complete and full in itself. There is joy

but more than joy -- really perfect satisfaction -- as if all problems of

all time had been resolved. No body or thought or world appears and it

seems as if there never were any. It seems certain "there is nothing

beyond this".

>It might be worthwhile exploring it as your insights have great value. The

>Experience of Self is Self-Confirming and requires no "external authority."

>Sages and Scriptures are clear and consistent on this topic. That the nature

>of Self is Self-Delight, Pure Self Awareness, Supreme Satisfaction, The

>Essence of Completion. The Self has absolutely no longing for anything what

>so ever, is beyond all thought and doubt, and is Whole and Complete. Perhaps

>you can give your views on such words to convey the nature of the Self.

>

 

Oh well... at the time, there is no doubt or want. There is no thing to

doubt or want and no one to doubt or want it. It is much as you say.

 

Sometime after this happened I was rather miraculously introduced to a very

great being who will doubtless be considered in the same league as

Ramakrishna if not Ram and Krshna. When I really noticed how they were I

thought "ahh... if God were here this is what He would be like". As I saw

the love coming from this being I felt a pulse of love coming from my own

heart quickly erupting into something like a molten wave rushing out

without bound. This love seemed to be coming out of everyone and

everything else too. The physical world seemed to become a fluid mass of

light and I could not understand at all what happened next.

 

Now it seems that simply surrendering to God is the best segue to

nonduality which is why I write the things I do -- but perhaps I'm veering

closer to the Bhakti-L list by doing so? :-))

[Guest guest]

Namaskar:

 

You should be happy to know that you are not the only one playing the tune of

nonduality by simply surrendering to God! Sankara has played the same music

over 1200 years back. Examples of his Bhakti Hymns

in praise of God include:

 

Bhaja Govindham

Ganesa Pancharatnam

Lalita Pancharatnam

Meenakshi Pancharatnam

Kanakadhara Stotram

Annapoonashtakam

Kamakshi Stotram

Dakshinamoorthy Stotram

Siva Bhujangam

Vishnu Bhujangam

Hanumat Bhujangam

Saundarya Lahari

Kasi Panchakam

Gangashtakam

Praatasmarana Stotram

maneesha Panchakam

Kaupeena Panchakam

Sadhana Pancham

Dasa Sloki

Gurvashtakam

Brahma Jnanavali

Hastaamalakeeyam

Srutisaara Samuddharanam

Totakshtakam

Nirvanshtakam

etc.,

 

Sankara, the missionary used the Advaita Philosophy to win over the

intellectuals to reestablish the Vedic Traditions. During the 7th and 8th

century A.D., India was going through great intellectual,

spiritual turmoil. Vedic religion had become more ritualistic as advocated by

the Poorva-Meemamsa. Though Buddhism was declining, Jainism was getting a lot

of royal patronage and Hinduism had developed a

number of intolerent sects. Religious corruption was prevalent at that time

and the emergence of Sankara was quite helpful to destroy the wicked and crooked

ways of thinking. Sankara was quite determined to

reestablish the Sanatana Dharma and impart to it the life giving philosophy of

the Nondual Brahman of the Upanishads.

 

The genius of Sankara made the edifice of Hindu religion strong through rational

and scientific exposition of the Upanishadic philosophy. His concept of Advita

helped the followers of SanAtana Dharma to face

all the challenges during the vicissitudes of history till modern times. To

protect the Hindu Religion, its culture and traditions, Sankara also

established Maths in four important places; in Sringeri in

the south; Badri in the north, Dwaraka in the west and Jagannath Puri in the

east. The Maths are located in natural environments amidst snow-clad mountains,

forests and rivers or on the shores of the ocean.

These Maths appear as though where heaven and earth meet and transport man's

thoughts to sublime heights. Sankara placed his disciple Sri Sureswaracharya at

the head of the Math in Sringeri, Sri Padmapada in

Dwaraka, Sri Totaka in Badri and Sri Hastamalaka in Puri. The Sankara Math in

Kanchi near Chennai also follows the same traditions established by Sankara and

there is no clear historical origin to its

establishment. The primary reason for Sankara to established these Mathas is to

preserve the physical and spiritual unity of Hindu Culture and Traditions. The

message of Sankara is a message of hope and

positive mental attitude. He emphasizes the divine potentiality in all human

beings which can be discovered through self-conscious evolution. Sankara

Advaita philosophy points out that peace, fulfilment of

desires, and happiness are always within us and our ignorance is the cause of

all our miseries.

 

Sankara’s evolution of Advaita Philosophy restated and reformed Hinduism and its

traditions and culture using scientific terminology. Shankara was instrumental

in the reorganization of temple worship and

devotion Temples served as religious symbols and Advaitans do go to all

temples and participate in worships and prayers. Idol worship is a complex

issue and it is quite important for us to understand the

role of deity worship and its relevance to Advaitam. Advaitam is a hybrid

version of Hinduism and Advaitins go to temples to help focus their mind. In

the southern India a section of the population knowns

as "Smartas" who follow Sankara's tradition which include study of Vedas and

temple worships. The Smartas worship all gods (see the list of hymns composed

by Sankara in the begining of this posting)

which include the family of gods correspond to Shiva and Vishnu. Those who

follow the tradition established by Ramanuja (Vaishnavas) worship only Vishnu!

It is fair to say that Sankara's Bhakti is unlimited

where as Ramanuja's Bhakti is limited!

 

The symbolism behind the temple worships by the Hindus is quite complex and if

it is understood objectively, then it is easy to appreciate the unity behind the

diversity of gods and humans!

 

Ram Chandran

Burke, VA

 

 

a c wrote:

>

> Now it seems that simply surrendering to God is the best segue to

> nonduality which is why I write the things I do -- but perhaps I'm veering

> closer to the Bhakti-L list by doing so? :-))

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ram & all,

> You should be happy to know that you are not the only one

> playing the tune of nonduality by simply surrendering to God!

> Sankara has played the same music over 1200 years back.

>

 

Yes I'm happy about this.

It makes me feel better about myself and Shankara! :-))

> Shankara was instrumental in the reorganization of temple

> worship and devotion Temples served as religious symbols

> and Advaitans do go to all temples and participate in worships

> and prayers. Idol worship is a complex issue and it is quite

> important for us to understand the role of deity worship

> and its relevance to Advaitam.

> [...]

> The symbolism behind the temple worships by the Hindus

> is quite complex and if it is understood objectively, then it

> is easy to appreciate the unity behind the diversity of gods

> and humans!

>

I am reading a book about basic Hinduism and am quite surprised

how appealing it is to me personally. The author points out that

westerners must usually work out some basic misunderstandings

about the spiritual path leading to Self realization which most

Hindus learn as children. Having spent a lot of time trying to get

just the icing, I am finally understanding it might be good to get

the cake too! :-))

 

best wishes to all,