Bhagavad Gita and Total Surrender to the Supreme

[Guest guest]

Advaita and Vishitadwaita insist the importance of total surrender of

ego for human salvation. One of the most admired verse in Bhagavad Gita

(Chapter 18, Verse 66) is quoted below. Ramanuja and Sankara gave great

importance to this verse for different reasons:

 

Sarvadharmaanparityajya maamekam sharanamvraja

Aham tvaa sarvapaapebhyo mokshayishyaami maa shuchah

 

Abondoning all duties, come to Me alone for shelter. Be not grieved for

I shall release thee from all evils. (Translation by Dr.

Radhakrishnana, Bhagavad Gita, page 378). Dr. Radhakrishnan sites this

beautiful quotation from Ruysbroeck: “He only is fit to contemplate the

Divine light who is the slave to nothing, not even to his virtues.” With

unreserved surrender to the Supreme, we will always attain total

perfection. When we didn’t reach the highest level of perfection, we

should know that we didn’t totally surrender our Ego!

 

The word "Sarvadharmaan" is a complex word and the exact English

translation is almost impossible. Dharma can mean religion, duty, logic,

notions, traditions, ethics, faith, laws, right, good, etc. Sarva means

all-inclusive or absolute and the complex word "Sarvadharman" can mean

all-religions, all-duties, all-logic, all-notions, all-traditions,

all-ethics, all-laws, all-faith, and all-laws. Alternatively

"Sarvadharman"implies all preconceived ideas about religion, logic,

notions, traditions, ethics, faith, laws etc. It is important to

understand the context and purpose of this verse. We should also know

the traditions of the society during the Mahabharat time in order to

grasp the meaning of this verse. What are the notions of Dharma during

Mahabharat period?

 

The war between Pandavas and Kauravas is a symbolic war between dharma

and adharma respectively. The war did not disturb Dhryodhana whereas

Arjuna was worried and depressed. Arjuna thought that killing his

cousins, grandfather, other relatives, teachers and friends constituted

a great sin and he was not ready to accept the consequences of the

war. The children of the Royal family got the training from childhood

on Dharmic principles and the importance of maintaining a society with

high moral values. Dhryodhana, the prince from Kaurava side also got

the same training along with Arjun and his brothers from the Pandava

familiy. The king Dhrtarashtra (father of Dhryodhana) due to attachment

for his son Dhryodhana, ignored the Dharmic principles and neglected the

advice of Bhishmar, Vidurar and Dhronar. The trained citizens of the

society with high moral values couldn't act against the will of the

king. Why does a citizen with high moral values obey the king when the

king asks the citizen to act against his/her own wills (Swadharma)?

Those who wants to uphold their Swadharma will agree to take the

punishment rather than violating their moral principles. Mahatma Gandhi

was never afraid to go to prison for violating the British laws because

he did not want to violate his Swadharma.

 

Dharma in this context is relative and not absolute. Arjun who was well

trained in Dharmic values was hesitant and fearful to fight and kill his

teachers, cousins, other relatives and friends. Lord Krishna in this

verse gave an assurance to Arjun that Arjun will not commit any sins by

acting as a messenger of God. When we feel that we have committed a

sin, it just confirms the presence of our Ego. Total surrender of one's

ego is necessary to remove the illusive sins. The human heart has just

enough space for either ego or divinity and total surrender is necessary

for the Divinity to occupy the human heart. The notions of dharma and

adharma, good and bad and joy and sorrow erupt in human mind when ego is

present. When we surrender our ego, divinity enters our heart to clear

all notions. No human action is ever possible without the direction of

the total consciousness and ego suppresses this fundamental truth.

 

When divinity fully occupies the human heart, religion, sin and action

are all abandoned! Ramanuja will argue that the grace of God grants the

unity between the Atman and Brahman. Sankara on the other hand will

argue that shredding the ego is possible with human efforts and

eventually, human can attain the unity with the divinity. In Sankara's

farmwork, all efforts of human beings come from only one source - The

Brahman. These two great masters of Vedanta have understood that only

one fundamental source of energy controls all real and imaginary

movements of this universe! In Shankara’s framework, Bhakti is subtle

and in Ramanuja’s model, Jnana is subtle. Both of them believed

graciously that God’s grace is necessary and sufficient for Salvation.

[Guest guest]

As Ram noted surrenderence has different meanings in advaita and

vishisTaadvaita. In both cases the ego is surrendered. In advaita -

surrenderence of ego implies there is no more I notion or identity with the

body, mind and intellect as I am that. Since ego is results from that

identity. That surrenderence therefore cannot happen until I know who I

am. Hence Bhagawan Ramana says true surrenderence occurs only once. Once

surrendered there is no more left to surrender.

 

In VishisTaadviata surrenderence of ego is sublimation of the

misunderstanding that I am swatantram or independent entity. I am dependent

completely on Him and hence it is the surrenderence to daasya bhava - I am

enternal servent of the Lord. I remain and the Lord remain but I am

subserviant to the Lord. swaruupyam is only explined as I am part of him or

that is I am his property. I belog to Him - I still remains separte from

Him but being dependent on Him I am part of His glory. Bhakta still

remains.

 

Hari Om

Sadananda

 

>Ram Chandran <chandran

>advaitin

>Advaitin List <advaitin >

> Bhagavad Gita and Total Surrender to the Supreme

>Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:09:45 -0400

>

>Ram Chandran <chandran

>

>Advaita and Vishitadwaita insist the importance of total surrender of

>ego for human salvation. One of the most admired verse in Bhagavad Gita

>(Chapter 18, Verse 66) is quoted below. Ramanuja and Sankara gave great

>importance to this verse for different reasons:

>

>Sarvadharmaanparityajya maamekam sharanamvraja

>Aham tvaa sarvapaapebhyo mokshayishyaami maa shuchah

>

>Abondoning all duties, come to Me alone for shelter. Be not grieved for

>I shall release thee from all evils. (Translation by Dr.

>Radhakrishnana, Bhagavad Gita, page 378). Dr. Radhakrishnan sites this

>beautiful quotation from Ruysbroeck: “He only is fit to contemplate the

>Divine light who is the slave to nothing, not even to his virtues.” With

>unreserved surrender to the Supreme, we will always attain total

>perfection. When we didn’t reach the highest level of perfection, we

>should know that we didn’t totally surrender our Ego!

>

> The word "Sarvadharmaan" is a complex word and the exact English

>translation is almost impossible. Dharma can mean religion, duty, logic,

>notions, traditions, ethics, faith, laws, right, good, etc. Sarva means

>all-inclusive or absolute and the complex word "Sarvadharman" can mean

>all-religions, all-duties, all-logic, all-notions, all-traditions,

>all-ethics, all-laws, all-faith, and all-laws. Alternatively

>"Sarvadharman"implies all preconceived ideas about religion, logic,

>notions, traditions, ethics, faith, laws etc. It is important to

>understand the context and purpose of this verse. We should also know

>the traditions of the society during the Mahabharat time in order to

>grasp the meaning of this verse. What are the notions of Dharma during

>Mahabharat period?

>

>The war between Pandavas and Kauravas is a symbolic war between dharma

>and adharma respectively. The war did not disturb Dhryodhana whereas

>Arjuna was worried and depressed. Arjuna thought that killing his

>cousins, grandfather, other relatives, teachers and friends constituted

>a great sin and he was not ready to accept the consequences of the

>war. The children of the Royal family got the training from childhood

>on Dharmic principles and the importance of maintaining a society with

>high moral values. Dhryodhana, the prince from Kaurava side also got

>the same training along with Arjun and his brothers from the Pandava

>familiy. The king Dhrtarashtra (father of Dhryodhana) due to attachment

>for his son Dhryodhana, ignored the Dharmic principles and neglected the

>advice of Bhishmar, Vidurar and Dhronar. The trained citizens of the

>society with high moral values couldn't act against the will of the

>king. Why does a citizen with high moral values obey the king when the

>king asks the citizen to act against his/her own wills (Swadharma)?

>Those who wants to uphold their Swadharma will agree to take the

>punishment rather than violating their moral principles. Mahatma Gandhi

>was never afraid to go to prison for violating the British laws because

>he did not want to violate his Swadharma.

>

>Dharma in this context is relative and not absolute. Arjun who was well

>trained in Dharmic values was hesitant and fearful to fight and kill his

>teachers, cousins, other relatives and friends. Lord Krishna in this

>verse gave an assurance to Arjun that Arjun will not commit any sins by

>acting as a messenger of God. When we feel that we have committed a

>sin, it just confirms the presence of our Ego. Total surrender of one's

>ego is necessary to remove the illusive sins. The human heart has just

>enough space for either ego or divinity and total surrender is necessary

>for the Divinity to occupy the human heart. The notions of dharma and

>adharma, good and bad and joy and sorrow erupt in human mind when ego is

>present. When we surrender our ego, divinity enters our heart to clear

>all notions. No human action is ever possible without the direction of

>the total consciousness and ego suppresses this fundamental truth.

>

>When divinity fully occupies the human heart, religion, sin and action

>are all abandoned! Ramanuja will argue that the grace of God grants the

>unity between the Atman and Brahman. Sankara on the other hand will

>argue that shredding the ego is possible with human efforts and

>eventually, human can attain the unity with the divinity. In Sankara's

>farmwork, all efforts of human beings come from only one source - The

>Brahman. These two great masters of Vedanta have understood that only

>one fundamental source of energy controls all real and imaginary

>movements of this universe! In Shankara’s framework, Bhakti is subtle

>and in Ramanuja’s model, Jnana is subtle. Both of them believed

>graciously that God’s grace is necessary and sufficient for Salvation.

>

>

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>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

>focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available

>at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin

>

[Guest guest]

>"Kuntimaddi Sadananda" <k_sadananda

>In advaita - surrenderence of ego implies there is no more I notion or

>identity with the body, mind and intellect as I am that. Since ego is

>results from that identity. That surrenderence therefore cannot happen

>until I know who I am. Hence Bhagawan Ramana says true surrenderence

>occurs only once. Once surrendered there is no more left to surrender.

 

Hari Om!

I agree that Sadanandaji's comments are perfectly logical.

Intellectually it makes full sense. But practically, how do I

surrender in a way that there is no more left to surrender?

Much less, how can I surrender my negativities and weaknesses that

I perceive atleast? (God save me from those that I am ignorant of!:-))

Difficulty seems increasing non-linearly while attempting

surrender at B(ody), M(ind) and I(ntellect) levels.

Ex. Physically avoiding harming others is easier compared to mentally

avoiding thoughts of injuring others. And intellectually reasoning out

without prejudices and past hangovers to entertain healthy thoughts

is still more challenging!

Is this true of your experience too? And if so what steps Gita

recommends?

With regards

-Srinivas

[Guest guest]

Hario Om:

 

Just Surrender and Just do it!

 

Ram Chandran

 

Note: Arjun did go through the intellectual analysis of 'Dharma and its

consequences.' Bhagawan at the end (at the very end of the eighteenth

chapter) suggests that the illusory Dharma should be dispelled. It is

not easy and hence total surrender is necessary and sufficient! See

Verse # 73 of Chapter 18: Arjuna said: "Destroyed my delusion and

recognition has been gained by me through Thy grace, I stand firm with

my doubts dispelled." I shall act according to Thy word. Until this

verse, Arjun's intellect was in the questioning mood and at this moment

he was able to make up his mind. The question how long does it take for

you and me to reach that stage can't be answered. We have evolve

ourselves to remove all thoughts (healthy and unhealthy)so that we can

become pure!

 

Srinivas Nagulapalli wrote:

> Ex. Physically avoiding harming others is easier compared to mentally

> avoiding thoughts of injuring others. And intellectually reasoning out

> without prejudices and past hangovers to entertain healthy thoughts

> is still more challenging!

> Is this true of your experience too? And if so what steps Gita

> recommends?

> With regards

> -Srinivas

[Guest guest]

On 8/17/99 at 8:44 AM Srinivas Nagulapalli wrote:

>"Srinivas Nagulapalli" <snagul

>

>>"Kuntimaddi Sadananda" <k_sadananda

>>In advaita - surrenderence of ego implies there is no more I

notion or

>>identity with the body, mind and intellect as I am that.

Since ego is

>>results from that identity. That surrenderence therefore

cannot happen

>>until I know who I am. Hence Bhagawan Ramana says true

surrenderence

>>occurs only once. Once surrendered there is no more left to

surrender.

>

>Hari Om!

>I agree that Sadanandaji's comments are perfectly logical.

>Intellectually it makes full sense. But practically, how do I

>surrender in a way that there is no more left to surrender?

>Much less, how can I surrender my negativities and weaknesses

that

>I perceive atleast? (God save me from those that I am

ignorant of!:-))

>Difficulty seems increasing non-linearly while attempting

>surrender at B(ody), M(ind) and I(ntellect) levels.

>Ex. Physically avoiding harming others is easier compared to

mentally

>avoiding thoughts of injuring others. And intellectually

reasoning out

>without prejudices and past hangovers to entertain healthy

thoughts

>is still more challenging!

>Is this true of your experience too? And if so what steps

Gita

>recommends?

>With regards

>-Srinivas

 

Surrender IS, when worldly life has lost all attraction. This

happens for instance, when loved ones, home and job are lost

in an instant. One is left with nothing (but the situation

isn't recognized as surrender); the same would happen when

suddenly diagnosed with a deadly disease. One can arrive at

this conclusion (having to give up everything) intellectually

as well. If the picture is clear, one is left with no choice:

surrender now or be forced to at the end of physical life.

When all worldy affairs have been given up, negativities lose

their object as do weaknesses; they only have meaning when

convinced something can be gained or lost while being engaged

in worldly activities. It is obvious this "type" of surrender

occurs only once.

 

Ramana Maharshi himself was an example; he went consciously

through a death-experience at age 17 that brought

enlightenment. The Buddha was practicing meditation and

asceticism for some 5 years, in vain. Having left loved ones

and the kingdom, in pursuit of unconditional happiness,

consider the state of mind after 5 years that nearly brought

physical death instead. Being left with no choice (the mark of

unconditional surrender), he gave up everything (including the

life of an ascetic...) and got enlightened. And so can you...

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

>

>On 8/17/99 at 8:44 AM Srinivas Nagulapalli wrote:

>

> >"Srinivas Nagulapalli" <snagul

> >

> >Hari Om!

> >I agree that Sadanandaji's comments are perfectly logical.

> >Intellectually it makes full sense. But practically, how do I

> >surrender in a way that there is no more left to surrender?

> >Much less, how can I surrender my negativities and weaknesses

>that

> >I perceive atleast? (God save me from those that I am

>ignorant of!:-))

> >Difficulty seems increasing non-linearly while attempting

> >surrender at B(ody), M(ind) and I(ntellect) levels.

> >Ex. Physically avoiding harming others is easier compared to

>mentally

> >avoiding thoughts of injuring others. And intellectually

>reasoning out

> >without prejudices and past hangovers to entertain healthy

>thoughts

> >is still more challenging!

> >Is this true of your experience too? And if so what steps

>Gita

> >recommends?

> >With regards

> >-Srinivas

>

 

Srinivas - Greetings from Madras.

 

I saw some comments as advaita and the intlectual aspects. Analysis may

be an intellectual inquiry - but advaita is niether intellectual nor related

to emotional nor at physical level related to actions - it is factual.

 

Sadhana involves contemplation on the reality - who am I is an inquiry.

Inquiry is the dhyaanam or meditaion on the truth by neti neti process. In

that sense, it is not an intellula anaysis of who I am, but rejection of who

I am not. As Bhagavaan Ramana puts it, it is not analysis of the truth but

analysis of the analyst. True, intelectual analysis can give rise to ego,

so is bhakti - so is karma - if they are not supported by proper

intellectual understanding - they give rise to bigotry and fanaticism. -

Just by doing selfless serve without proper understanding, does not make it

a yoga - It becomes a yoga only when the Iswara is brought in - But who is

that Iswara has to be understood correctly otherwise fanaticism idevelpes.

 

One cannot sit down and meditate unless ones mind is pure. Purity can arise

by practicing - karma yoga, bhakit yogo and JNaana yogo- Unless mind is

pure, contemplation becomes impossible. Hence what does B.G. teach? - the

whole of yoga shastra - Ramanuja sharanNaagati practically involves

surrending manasa, vaacha karmana -(by thought, word and action) all to

Lord NarayaNa - hence Vaishnavaite go through a processes of samaasrayanam

where the embalm of the Lord - shanku and chakra are imprinted on the

sholders - it is meant to surrenderence of the body, mind and intllect ,

from them on to consider that body is meant for Lord NarayaNa's service -

Where is that Lord Naarayana - All Vaishanvates chant - antar bahischa tat

sarvama vyaapya naarayaNa stittaH| He is inside me and out sdie me and He is

everywhere. Hence manasaa, vaacha and karmana - one has to offer everything

to him - In this process ones ego is gets slowly dissolved. If I have that

true understanding that Lord is everywhere then I got all the education I

want from shastraas - but that understanding is only superficial or

intellectual if that is not fully raalized. Hence true bhakti is not easy

ether.

 

 

But by bringng the Lord, you shift the burdon to Him to help you. If I

think I am the Lord, then the burdon rests on my sholders fully. But

bringing the Lord and thinking that Lord is everywhere in every one and in

every place is not that easy when the our mind is pushed left and right by

the emotional stroms. Hence Bhakti, JNaana and Karma have all come into

play in any sadhana - only one may be more prominent than the others

depending on the inclinations of the sadhak.

 

Intellecutal analysis, intensive study of the scriputres and conemplation

can be a sadhana if that is the means to keep the mind to contemplate on the

nature of the reality. Obviously he has to watch for the ego raising in

the intellect that I know everything.

 

Actually if one knows more and more, one should become more and more humble

since he now knows there are lot more things that he does not know. Only

half pots make noise but when one is full he becomes more quiet. this is

true in Bhakti and Karma too. People who are truely devoted and people who

pose who are devoted - we can see them everywhere. We have simple bhaktas

like kabir and kanakadaasa whose devotion knows no bounds and we have

bhaktas who kill in the name of bhakti other sects who are not following

thier beliefs or those who are more interested in exhibitiionism.

 

Hence any path is a razor edge path - one has to carefully proceed. Advata

does not truely separate JNaana versus Bhakti since they merge into one in

the final analysis when true surrenderence occurs.

It provides the understanding of the nature of the truth so that one can

contemplate with correct understanding. Hence Bhagavaan Ramana says in

upadesha saara:

bhedha baavana sohamityasou

bhaavanaabhidaa paavani mata||

Of the two methods of contemplation, I am separate and Lord is separate,

bbheda bhaavana ; contemplation with the understanding I and He are one,

soham iti - is more secred - This is my openion and the openion of the

shaastra and also openion of the wise.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

Hari Om!

 

Sadanandaji’s explanation of “Sadhana” and “Yoga” within the context

of Advaita Vedanta is beautiful. His message truly reflects the

messages contained in the Shastras and the opinions expressed by the

sages and saints of the Upanishads. The true characteristics of karma

yogi or a bhakti yogi or a jnana yogi can’t be defined by words. When

the person who conducts the karma yoga (similarly bhakti and jnana

yogas) dubiously will feel guilty subconsciously. Such a person will

experience misery and suffering and his/her mind gets corrupted. The

purpose of any yoga is to purify the mind and the first step for mind

purification is not to pretend! When we pretend to be someone else, we

do not analyze the “true analyst.” Instead of contemplation, our mind

gets the agitation because we subconsciously recognize our pretension.

 

In fact in conducting any duty, the Yagna spirit is important. We can’t

pretend to be a good teacher or a good worker or a good leader or a good

student or a good spouse or a good parent, or a good kid or a good

driver, etc.. We have to become good to be good. We have to become a

Yogi to be a Yogi and we have to become the Brahman to be the Brahman.

Sadaji has rightly brought in Iswara because Iswara represents the

oneness between you, me and everything in the nature. Iswara Bhakti

implies serving and loving everyone without exclusion.

 

Note: I want to thank Sadaji for his constructive comments and postings

with the Yagna spirit and the list is quite fortunate to get his

thoughtful comments. This list was started a year back with the

cooperation and understanding of the the following list of founding

members.

 

Raju100 (Raju)

acurry (Allan)

brickmar (Jonathan)

egodust (Frank)

gmurthy (Gummuluru)

goode (Greg)

maadhavan (Maadhavan)

omkar (Swami Vishvarupananda)

sada (Sadanand)

vpcnk (Nanda)

 

This list was impossible without the dedication, love and contribution

of all the 124 current members of this list. Thank you all for your

support and understanding,

 

Ram Chandran

Advaitin List Moderator

 

 

 

Kuntimaddi Sadananda wrote:

>

> I saw some comments as advaita and the intlectual aspects. Analysis

may

> be an intellectual inquiry - but advaita is niether intellectual nor

related

> to emotional nor at physical level related to actions - it is factual.

>

> Sadhana involves contemplation on the reality - who am I is an

inquiry.

> Inquiry is the dhyaanam or meditaion on the truth by neti neti

process. In

> that sense, it is not an intellula anaysis of who I am, but rejection

of who

> I am not. As Bhagavaan Ramana puts it, it is not analysis of the

truth but

> analysis of the analyst. True, intelectual analysis can give rise to

ego,

> so is bhakti - so is karma - if they are not supported by proper

> intellectual understanding - they give rise to bigotry and

fanaticism. -

> Just by doing selfless serve without proper understanding, does not

make it

> a yoga - It becomes a yoga only when the Iswara is brought in - But

who is

> that Iswara has to be understood correctly otherwise fanaticism

idevelpes.

> ....................

>.....................

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Ram Chandran wrote:

> Ram Chandran <chandran

>

> Hari Om!

>

> [...]

>

> Note: I want to thank Sadaji for his constructive comments and postings

> with the Yagna spirit and the list is quite fortunate to get his

> thoughtful comments. This list was started a year back with the

> cooperation and understanding of the the following list of founding

> members.

>

> Raju100 (Raju)

> acurry (Allan)

> brickmar (Jonathan)

> egodust (Frank)

> gmurthy (Gummuluru)

> goode (Greg)

> maadhavan (Maadhavan)

> omkar (Swami Vishvarupananda)

> sada (Sadanand)

> vpcnk (Nanda)

>

> This list was impossible without the dedication, love and contribution

> of all the 124 current members of this list. Thank you all for your

> support and understanding,

>

> Ram Chandran

> Advaitin List Moderator

>

 

namaste.

 

There is one name I can think of which Shri Ram Chandran did not include,

out of modesty and humbleness. That is his own name.

 

Shri Ram Chandran's contributions to this List, in getting the List going

and in moderating it are too well known and are to be acknowledged.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------