Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 The question of discarding attachments and conditioning is central to many spiritual paths. People speak of transformations, giving up of conditioning etc., and attaining a finer and finer level of understanding and quality of being. This is clearly a valid perspective and the paths of Yoga are based on that. Even Advaitins emphasize practical aspects of Sadhana and the advice given by sages in different traditions is a natural outgrowth of this view. Perhaps the Jnana path can be fully embraced if there is a radical cognitive shift where a total awareness perspective becomes primary and predominant. In such a case, it is not clear what Sadhana is appropriate or even what the meaning of Sadhana is. If Awareness is the essential nature of Brahaman, and it is clear that we are Awareness, this makes that what is considered distant very near, or even more than near, without any distance whatsoever, as it is only one's own self and nothing else. No attempt to grab or experience anything extraordinary can be fruitful here as the Self is self-contented and is of the nature of simple tranquil awareness which is the essence of wholeness. So great Sages rightly question what Sadhana can be practiced beyond the serene Self-awareness which is one's own natural state. In this paradigm, the radical understanding and awareness spoken of in the scriptures is known to be essentially not different than the ordinary understanding and awareness. Resistance to this acceptance maybe considered Maya, and is based on the perceived gulf between ego (perhaps called Jeevaatman) and Brahaman and by implication the distance between where we are now versus where we will be in the future. It is assumed that after we have dropped various conditions and attained a high level of detachment, wisdom, understanding, etc., that we will be in a position to experience perfection, see Truth or be with God, or merge with Brahaman. However, if one fully embraces wholeness of the ordinary (the everyday usual) awareness, what next step could there be? One can ask the following: How can one discard that (attachment or condition) which truly does not belong to It? And how can one discard that which one Is? This is a profound meditation, which is the acceptance of the ordinary and conditional awareness with the full knowledge that this is the unconditional awareness. Once the Heart of Attention has fundamentally shifted to Itself, that Itself is the fuel of the effortless effort which eventually burns up leaving nothing behind. When the Ground of Being absorbs all attention and all effort, what is there to discard, and how, and by whom? Such a questioning may start at the intellectual level but will not stay there if pursued. Of course, I am not opposed to discarding various types of conditioning and attaining finer and finer levels of detachment and understanding at all. If you are for it, I am for it. Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 Namaskar Harshaji: You have raised several fundamental questions regarding True Human Nature and associated human dharma (karma). The presentation of your thoughts is excellent and it brings new insights to the complex phenomenon - self-awareness. I have added some additional points on the basis of my understanding: The famous quotation from the Upanishads states the following guidelines for living: "Life is a bridge, enjoy while living and don't build a castle on it." The Hindu scriptures also suggest a path of life with Self-awareness without disturbing the natural state of being. The natural state of being does not imply any supernatural state of being but just an ordinary human being with self-awareness. A careful study of Bhagavad Gita can yield a set of guidelines to lead a human life without misery and suffering. When we continue to live our life without misery and suffering, that is our salvation. The human beings have the freedom to choose any job that they want to do and once chosen, they have to fulfil their obligation with 100% commitment without distortion. Once we decided to have a child, we have chosen a number of associated jobs (duties) which includes - parent, teacher, friend, etc.. First, we should be fully aware of these additional obligations and any resistance to these additional obligations introduce duality and plurality. Second, while performing those duties, we don't want to mix-up our duties: As a parent, we love our child and show compassion and kindness but as a teacher, our obligation is to teach and not to show emotional attachment. We have a ‘free-will' to have a child but the ‘fate' brings the additional obligations that can't be denied. The term ‘Swadharma' doesn't mean full freedom and only conditional freedom. The moment Arjun chose to be a warrior, he is obligated to fight the war and kill his relatives and friends who join the side of his enemy. Most of the time, to discard attachments, we seem to assume that the objects are responsible for attachments. The drunkard believes that the liquor is responsible for his/her problem and try to get rid of the liquor bottles instead of changing his/her drinking habit. A Vedantic Sadhana in this situation is not to hide the liquor bottles but to develop an attitude that permanently erase the liquor Vasana. The Vedantic Sadhana will become complete if the drunkard doesn't get the urge to drink even when he/she works in a liquor store. Finally, there are no uniform rules that can satisfy all individuals under all situations. Vedanta doesn't prescribe any ‘Sadhana' that can fit individual needs to attain self-awareness whether it is ordinary or extraordinary. Self-unfoldment requires individual efforts and it is self-evolved. External guidance can help somebody and for others such guidance can hinder progress. Regards, Ram Chandran Burke, VA "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" wrote: > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > The question of discarding attachments and conditioning is central to many > spiritual paths. People speak of transformations, giving up of conditioning > etc., and attaining a finer and finer level of understanding and quality of > being. This is clearly a valid perspective and the paths of Yoga are based > on that. Even Advaitins emphasize practical aspects of Sadhana............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > [...] No attempt to > grab or experience anything extraordinary can be fruitful here as the Self > is self-contented and is of the nature of simple tranquil awareness which is > the essence of wholeness. So great Sages rightly question what Sadhana can > be practiced beyond the serene Self-awareness which is one's own natural > state. In this paradigm, the radical understanding and awareness spoken of > in the scriptures is known to be essentially not different than the ordinary > understanding and awareness. Resistance to this acceptance maybe considered > Maya, and is based on the perceived gulf between ego (perhaps called > Jeevaatman) and Brahaman and by implication the distance between where we > are now versus where we will be in the future. It is assumed that after we > have dropped various conditions and attained a high level of detachment, > wisdom, understanding, etc., that we will be in a position to experience > perfection, see Truth or be with God, or merge with Brahaman. However, if > one fully embraces wholeness of the ordinary (the everyday usual) awareness, > what next step could there be? One can ask the following: How can one > discard that (attachment or condition) which truly does not belong to It? > And how can one discard that which one Is? This is a profound meditation, > which is the acceptance of the ordinary and conditional awareness with the > full knowledge that this is the unconditional awareness. Once the Heart of > Attention has fundamentally shifted to Itself, that Itself is the fuel of > the effortless effort which eventually burns up leaving nothing behind. When > the Ground of Being absorbs all attention and all effort, what is there to > discard, and how, and by whom? Such a questioning may start at the > intellectual level but will not stay there if pursued. Of course, I am not > opposed to discarding various types of conditioning and attaining finer and > finer levels of detachment and understanding at all. If you are for it, I am > for it. > needless to say, this is a vital issue, and one that can avail tremendous insight and growth in the application of one's sadhana. you have intimated the fact that desire is integral to the whole of Being Itself, manifesting quite clearly in the Ordinary and Mundane. how else could it be? yes, we must embrace the whole of What Is, lest advaita itself be a sleight of mind deception! examining therefore the nature and essence of Desire, this is what i have learned (and i should emphasize that this, as well as any such philosophic conception, is merely a strategic methodology devised for the purpose of dissolving the ego): Desire is mulaprakrit. Desire is the root of prakrit, shakthi, leela, and maya. Desire is the root of all of Life. Desire is the Creator, Sustainer, and Destroyer of Time, Space, and Causation. Desire is the spark of Creation emanating brahman. Desire is indeed the will of brahman. although nirguna brahman is devoid of all attributes including desire, Desire yet emanates therefrom. how it does is unanswerable. the very act of sustaining one's life in a body-- regardless how basic its expression, including sannyas-- is itself an act of Desire. therefore we must come to terms with what it is and how we use it. the common problem of course is potential abuse and focus. each person is taken by a set of its dynamics and the tendency is to brood and obsess and thus become victimized [and thereby specifically become trapped and limited]. so the sadhana is to neutralize the focus through various methods. in this regard it's worthwhile observing the jnani. it is said that the jnani neither posseses sanchita or generates agami karma; however, prarabdhakarma must yet unfold. Bhagavan Sri Ramana uses the metaphor of a fan that is switched off: with no electric to power it, continues to spin from past momentum. and this is the product of Desire, endemic to the body-mind complex. although Desire causes behaviors, there is no-one there to absorb them. Bhagavan goes on to say that in fact pleasure can yet be had through them, yet the experiencer is sunk in the bliss of Self, simply because...yes, that's right!...there is no experiencer! hahaha! herein lies the devastating power of the paradox as seen through the limited window of the relative mind. it is hopeless and futile to even *attempt* to render reasonable the realization of the jnani! ....let this be a lesson to all of us. :-) peace in one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 1999 Report Share Posted September 4, 1999 In a message dated 9/3/1999 9:56:12 AM Central Daylight Time, hluthar writes: << When the Ground of Being absorbs all attention and all effort, what is there to discard, and how, and by whom? >> Namaste, Possible answer: Once the state of Union with Brahman is realized, then there is nothing to which One can be attached or unattached. While still "in" the body, the realized Master may choose to follow Dharma and engage in prescribed rituals or apparent sadana as a way of showing those who are as yet unrealized the steps that lead to a state of Oneness. The "steps" however, once Unity is realized, are no longer necessary. Once the top of the Mountain is attained, the rope ladder can be thrown away, or ...it can be left and used so that others may follow it to the top. The question may come, what others?...when all becomes One, what others really exit? The viewpoint of the Atman established in Brahman towards those who still perceive themselves to be individual souls lost in samsara is a mysterious question. The way it has been explained to me is that those lost souls actually already know their true existence as Brahman (how can Brahman not be omniscient?), but they are still playing the part of one ignorant of their own knowledge. If the realized Master is in body, and the nature of the body is to "exist" in a temporal plane in which souls have still not reached the chronological ripening of their eventual enlightenment, then this embodied Master can choose to "play" the role of the "awakener" while knowing themselves to be One with those they pretend to awaken. God playing hid and seek with itself. What a fun game to create, sustain and then dissolve. It is only us players who are forgetful in the middle of the game who complain and see ourselves as suffering the pain of separation...all the while playing inside the theater of our Divine Consciousness, as the jeeva we either want the play to last forever (those who are deceived by maya and think that is all there is) or we want to rush to the end of the game instead of gleefully enjoying the Divine play! (those of us who don't realize that the path, the goal, the player and the Godhead are all the same) It would seem clear that once the Bliss of realization occurs, the game is no longer played as a tragic drama, but as a Conscious Celebration. "To the seer, all things have verily become the Self: what delusion, what sorrow, can there be for him who beholds that oneness?" - Isa Upanishad Ja Mata Guru, Blessings to all of us - the One Parvati Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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