Introduction and Reply on smr^tir labdhA

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone. I'm a newcomer to the list. Before I briefly introduce myself I

would like to say that I am enjoying all of the insightful posts here.

 

My familiarity with Advaita in this lifetime goes back to studies I did at

university. At that time, I did various specialized studies on Advaita

Vedanta, Sankara, the Upanisads, and Sri Aurobindo. Among particular texts

that I studied intensively were the "Brahma Sutras" and Aurobindo's "Life

Divine". However, my academic studies in this field have not continued and I

am not to be considered a specialist. I can not read Sanskrit and my path in

recent years has included very little in the way of studying Advaita. As

such, my "memory" of the extended definitions of terms such as "jiva" and

"maya" is in need of some jogging. Nevertheless, my background will allow me

to keep up with the dialogue and posts.

 

I would like to thank Ram Chandra for his diligence in maintaining such a

brilliant list.

 

As an initial post, I would like to address the following comments posted by

Gummuluru Murthy:

 

>If smr^tir labdhA: = memory regained = remembered,

>It then means: Out of the huge amount of information that is cluttering

>or stored in the mind, or wherever that is kept, pick up one piece of

>information.

>

>If we interpret smr^tir labdhA that way, it means Arjuna seems to be

>saying: "... O yes, I remember my true identity, I am Brahman...".

>But that is not realization and that is not Brahman for the following

>reasons.

>

>1. If you know you are Brahman, you can never forget It and then

> remember It.

 

We all know we are Brahman, forget it, and then remember it. Before our

descent into ignorance and the veils of matter (not only physical but also

mental and causal sheaths) we are all realized-Brahman. In the midst of

varying degrees of ignorance, I believe that we do indeed experience moments

wherein we remember we are Brahman or Atman. It is the first intensive

experience of remembering which we may refer to as an 'Awakening.' True,

this is not full self-realization, but in a real sense, we can be said to

realize that we are truly Brahman. As we continue with sadhana or our lives,

we may periodically remember and forget our true identity.

 

Perhaps then it would be more true to say that once we "fully" know we are

Brahman we can not forget it. I think possibly that what Gummuluru Murthy

has implied in his above comments is that full-realization of Brahman is

impossible to forget. Is this true?

 

On the other hand, I would say that it is our partial realization and

remembering of our true nature as Brahman which leads us to the study of

Advaita in the first place. Just the fact that we are speaking of Brahman

means that in some way we are directed towards the fullness of that

knowledge. In other words, we have remembered what we are doing here.

 

>3. "I am Brahman" is not a retrievable piece of information. If that

> is the case, you remember it today, and you may forget it tomorrow.

> That is not the way Brahman is realized, as the upanishads repeatedly

> say.

 

 

While I would agree that Brahman-Realization, whether partial or complete,

is not "a retrieveable piece of information", our initial realization is

forgettable. Certainly some cam maintain a constant awareness but many of us

cannot.

 

I would be interested in what the Upanisads say in this regard if anyone has

them handle. I'm sorry but I have left my copy in another residence.

 

Veronica

[Guest guest]

Welcome, Veronica (D Hill), we seem to share somewhat

of a similar background: Vedanta including Aurobindo.

 

I think I agree with the following:

>We all know we are Brahman, forget it, and then remember it. Before our

>descent into ignorance and the veils of matter (not only physical but also

>mental and causal sheaths) we are all realized-Brahman. In the midst of

>varying degrees of ignorance, I believe that we do indeed experience moments

>wherein we remember we are Brahman or Atman. It is the first intensive

>experience of remembering which we may refer to as an 'Awakening.' True,

>this is not full self-realization, but in a real sense, we can be said to

>realize that we are truly Brahman. As we continue with sadhana or our lives,

>we may periodically remember and forget our true identity.

 

Your idea of a gradation of states of "knowing" (experientially

as well as intellectually, I assume) that we are Brahman, and

of a fluctuating ascent on that gradation as our realization

matures and reaches towards fullness, is very realistic. This

view seems to reflect Aurobindo's vision, and to me it makes a

a lot more sense than that Brahman-realization is on On/Off

switch. My own experience is certainly gradualistic and

fluctuating, and I think a certain "remembering" of deeper-

than-ego knowledge is involved in this ascent, and this is what

I tried to indicate in one of my posts on this thread.

>Perhaps then it would be more true to say that once we "fully" know we are

>Brahman we can not forget it. I think possibly that what Gummuluru Murthy

>has implied in his above comments is that full-realization of Brahman is

>impossible to forget. Is this true?

 

Once "wefully knowwe are Brahman" do "westill exist"

as "knowers of Brahman" or is there just Brahman? I think there

may be two views on this. Some hold that "full realization"

results in dissolution of the superimposiition back into Brahman,

and there is no longer a knower of Brahman, only Brahman.

Others hold that the knower of Brahman can perdure in union

with Brahman as sort of a self-illumined thought of Brahman.

I would think that anyone who fully realizes Brahman while

still embodied would best be understood in this way [but I

don't claim personal knowledge of this. ]

>On the other hand, I would say that it is our partial realization and

>remembering of our true nature as Brahman which leads us to the study of

>Advaita in the first place. Just the fact that we are speaking of Brahman

>means that in some way we are directed towards the fullness of that

>knowledge. In other words, we have remembered what we are doing here.

 

Yes, a partial realization and a partial remembering of "what we

are doing here" draws us to Vedanta.

>While I would agree that Brahman-Realization, whether partial or complete,

>is not "a retrieveable piece of information", our initial realization is

>forgettable. Certainly some can maintain a constant awareness but many of us

>cannot.

 

I would suggest that the 'heart' of the Jivatman always possesses

Brahman-realization, and that the superfical formations within

the Jivatman can gain access to this heart. Whether we think of

this as "retrieving information" or "recovering self-knowledge"

or "a repose of the ego in the Jivatman" may just depend on our

habits of thought and expression. What matters is that the

"superimposition" is returning towards its source.

 

Namaste,

Max

 

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