Guest guest Posted October 19, 1999 Report Share Posted October 19, 1999 Thank you Ramji. Everything that you said is beautiful and makes sense and I agree with it. Frankji said the same thing in a different way and I agreed with it. Volatility of statements and all.......................is not what is intended here. I was simple showing my admiration for Frankji experiential knowledge and no insult is intended to anyone. By agreeing with the words of wisdom of living beings, we are not denying the authenticity of the living scriptures. Swami Vivekananda once said, "I am the proof of the Vedas!" It is living sages who renew and revitalize the scriptures and make the sacred teachings live again. It is in the teachings of Vedas, that Jnanis find support of their knowledge and experience. So finding beauty in one does not contradict the beauty in the other. The Beauty of the Self is, however, beyond compare as Here everything vanishes into it. Here is what I wrote earlier and is appropriate in this context. "I wonder, if ultimately, what we are attracted to or repulsed by (even ideas or spiritual teachings, or our interpretation of those teachings, etc.), might be reminding us indirectly that we need to in some way become more accessible to the pull of the Absolute, that magnetic attraction to our own Center. Only that reminder, that nudge, that thought is enough. Even at a feeling level, not always amenable to clear expression, it is enough. Perhaps that is a preface for allowing that powerful force of surrender to the Divine to come into play. All attempts at understanding are after all with the mind. How far can one go with that? Far enough, I suppose. But if you go far enough, you will come to an edge and if by Grace you are pulled into the Heart, that is always calling, you (along with your attempts to understand) will surely disappear. The terror of total and complete loss of identity ends in the Knowing that, Self It Self is the Totality and the Identity, and That is the Clarity and the Bliss without any support what so ever, and utterly, eternally complete. That, the ancient sages and scriptures tell us is the Heart, which requires no support, which has no cause, but which supports all the play of consciousness as the background. Indeed, all consciousness arises from it, as the Heart It Self is That. Here Reality is Known and Recognized (through It Self and by It Self) as always shining in Its Natural Form by Its own Light. This is the Silence which is immovable, and in perpetual communion with It Self. It is the Center and the Circumference. Call it God, call it Self, call it No Self, call it Emptiness, or call it the Void, call it Beyond God and Self and No Self, or call it something else, or even coin a new term perhaps to suit the times. What difference can it make at that point? To Know It, is to Be It. The mind cannot contain it or completely obscure it, as the mind sprouts up from only That. The essential and diffused “I” nature of the mind, when looked for disappears and the Heart as Awareness become apparent. That Is Truth. It Is what You Are." Harsha Ram Chandran [chandranram] Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:35 AM advaitin Re: Thank you Frankji for your clarity "Ram Chandran" <chandranram Harashaji: You have made some interesting observations and conclusions and with good intentions. However, the last paragraph of your assertion could be easily misunderstood because the statements are potentially volatile. Let me try to restate your conclusions and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I would have said that words and scriptures become indistinguishable and merge with the Jnanai! The Scriptures, Jnani, words, explanations, descriptions etc. become one with the Brahman. Truth can never be slayed and all our beliefs about the nature of Truth is slayed! What we seek is the TRUTH, and Scriptures at the beginning can help us a great deal as a tool to find our path and our dependence on Scriptures will disappear slowly and at the end, we can become independent! The sages and saints of Upanishads have made statements similar to the effect. When we try to learn bicycle, we do need all the support that we can get and once we know cycling, those supports become unnecessary! But can we ever say that those supports are unnecessary at the beginning? regards, Ram Chandran >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >Frankji: >.......................... >this is why words and scriptures must in the end crumble. >in the end they are not merely obstacles, but slayers! >slayers of the truth that even now thunders in the Heart. > >even now, >in OM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 1999 Report Share Posted October 20, 1999 Hari Om Frankji and Harshaji! On behalf of the list members, I want to express my sincere thanks and appreciation to both of you for the reply with additinal clarifications. regards, Ram Chandran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 1999 Report Share Posted October 20, 1999 hariH OM! Ramji and Harshaji, and List members, yes, it was misleading on my part to say that "...truth is slayed." what was meant was that it can be 'slayed' in terms of being compromised *within one's field of understanding*, not in terms of Itself, which is quite independent of the jiva's understanding. insofar as scriptures being necessary *en route* to the threshold of so-called moksha, yes we're in full agreement that they are in fact vital. the whole point i think that anyone on the List has mentioned them in the context of being unnecessary and/or even counterproductive, was specifically with respect to the final stages of one's sadhana, where the Heart must take over the reigns from the Mind (buddhi over manas). shaanthiprem in OM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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