not this

[Guest guest]

>>Greg: <snip>

>>Experiences and objects aren't continuous, but your

true nature is unbroken - You are that which registers thoughts and the

gaps between thoughts, sensations and gaps bewteen sensations. Thoughts,

feelings and sensations are discontinuous - in order for you to be aware

of

this, you must *not* be discontinuous.

 

D:

Yes. We perceive and cognize by contrasts. So to register discontinuity

requires "something unbroken". Now, what registers that "unbroken something"

(i.e., how can we even formulate a concept such as "nonduality")? This, it

seems to me is where we get to "neither something nor nothing,neither

nondual nor dualneither absolute nor relativeneither changing nor

unchanging" ...

 

We can discuss Self, All, Infinity. What allows us to do so?

"What allows us to do so" forms whatever contrast allows us to know Self as

Self, All as All, Infinity as Infinity.

 

Neti, neti is a device toward realization that

anything that can be cognized or perceived is the result of contrast.

It opens inquiry into "what allows us to do so".

If we say "there is 'Something' that formulates contrast"

we inevitably form a distinction between Something and Nothing, forming and

not forming, contrasting and not contrasting.

 

--Dan

[Guest guest]

At 10:53 AM 11/3/99 -0500, Dan Berkow, PhD wrote:

>"Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd

>

> >>Greg: <snip>

> >>Experiences and objects aren't continuous, but your

> true nature is unbroken - You are that which registers thoughts and the

> gaps between thoughts, sensations and gaps bewteen sensations. Thoughts,

> feelings and sensations are discontinuous - in order for you to be aware

> of this, you must *not* be discontinuous.

>

>D:

>Yes. We perceive and cognize by contrasts. So to register discontinuity

>requires "something unbroken". Now, what registers that "unbroken something"

>(i.e., how can we even formulate a concept such as "nonduality")? This, it

>seems to me is where we get to "neither something nor nothing,neither

>nondual nor dualneither absolute nor relativeneither changing nor

>unchanging" ...

 

Greg:

I didn't mean this rhetoric to go that far, and I can't push it that far

without making up stuff! I'm not saying that there really *is* anything

that registers anything, or anything real to be registered. This was

just a suggestion for Robert (Parisi & Watson), who wanted an explanation

from advaita of continuity if mostly what he experienced was

discontinuity. Great question! In the language of his question, framed in

terms of continuity/discontinuity, it makes sense that there is something

that registers the discontinuities. In that same model, continuity can't

be registered, because by definition it doesn't start or stop, or have

edges, etc. To make this model account for the registering of the

continuity (or background) results in an infinite regress.

 

So, as far as getting to "neither something or nothing," that's a

descriptive way to point to an endpoint that is not a point. I see it a

bit differently. Instead of getting to an X-that-is-not-an-X -- I'd say

it just isn't the case that there's any getting.

>Neti, neti is a device toward realization that anything that can be

>cognized or perceived is the result of contrast. It opens inquiry into

>"what allows us to do so". If we say "there is 'Something' that

>formulates contrast" we inevitably form a distinction between Something

>and Nothing, forming and not forming, contrasting and not contrasting.

 

I agree; if we say "there is Something," we've got the whole ball of

wax. So why ask the question of "what allows"? The true answer to any

question is the non-arising of the question. Like you say (I think you say

this too) any positive answer ("What allows it is XYZ.") reifies or

hypostatizes the allower, the allowed, and the rest of the world.

 

These are fascinating inquiries, Dan-ji. A bit like the root differences

often cited between Advaita/Buddhism, atman/anatman, Brahman/sunyata,

plenum/void etc., which have been discussed on this list in the past.

 

OM/Gassho,

 

--Greg

 

 

Greg Goode (e-mail: goode)

Computer Support

Phone: 4-5723

[Guest guest]

Dan brings up good points and I have a feeling that Dan's insight is going

to bring different outlooks on the questions and I know that personally I'm

glad to have him and his knowledge here.

 

Anthony