Guest guest Posted November 7, 1999 Report Share Posted November 7, 1999 >>dear friends, >on what basis can we say that the mind gives us only a >picture of reality and does not show us reality itself?,rgds-devendra. Devendra - The idea that a picture of reality appears in a mind is itself a picture of reality. The idea of "reality itself" is also an idea (picture) of some sort, perhaps the idea of an "unknown beyond". If there is Something not in the realm of ideas, it is simultaneously not in the realm of explanation and analysis. Thus, the only possible answer is "it must be seen directly or not at all." Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 1999 Report Share Posted November 8, 1999 dear dan, very interesting answer,but i would like to know something more on what is:"it must be seen directly or not at all",are you suggesting direct immediate perception without any instruments,any intervening agency.? >"Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd >advaitin >advaitin > Re: direct seeing >Sun, 07 Nov 1999 15:44:14 -0500 > > > >>dear friends, > >on what basis can we say that the mind gives us only a > >picture of reality and does not show us reality itself?,rgds-devendra. > >Devendra - >The idea that a picture of reality appears in a mind >is itself a picture of reality. The idea of "reality itself" >is also an idea (picture) of some sort, perhaps the idea of an "unknown >beyond". If there is Something not in the realm of ideas, it is >simultaneously not in the realm of explanation and analysis. Thus, the >only possible answer is "it must be seen directly or not at all." >Dan > > >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available >at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin >Mirror Archive Site: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 1999 Report Share Posted November 8, 1999 As I see: You can see it when you close your eyes, you can also see it when you open your eyes. A blind man sees that which is not seen... An insane man understands it with out any difficulty, and a sane man rocks his head off in order to understand it, through out his life time, and turns futile. You have to see it, directly... because a worldly person's eyes are never capable of seeing directly. In deed, every one is seeing it, right in front of their eyes... They can also see it by turning their eyes back 180 degrees. Seeing is not really seeing and perceiving is also not seeing. You can never see it because you wanted to see it. You can see it, if you do not want to see it. You can understand it, if you do not want to understand it. If you want to understand it, you can never understand it... See with out your eyes, smell with out your nose, taste with out your tongue, touch with out your body, hear that which is beyond all known syllables... Know it with out your mind, understand it with out your intellect... compare it with out your citta (memory bank), confront it with out your ego.... Then you are me, I am you... All is nothing but ???. EkamEva adviteeyaM brahma. Love, Madhava > > Devendra Vyas [sMTP:dev_vyas74] > Monday, November 08, 1999 12:00 PM > advaitin > Re: Re: direct seeing > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > dear dan, > very interesting answer,but i would like to know something more on > > what is:"it must be seen directly or not at all",are you suggesting direct > > immediate perception without any instruments,any intervening agency.? > > > >"Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd > >advaitin > >advaitin > > Re: direct seeing > >Sun, 07 Nov 1999 15:44:14 -0500 > > > > > > >>dear friends, > > >on what basis can we say that the mind gives us only a > > >picture of reality and does not show us reality > itself?,rgds-devendra. > > > >Devendra - > >The idea that a picture of reality appears in a mind > >is itself a picture of reality. The idea of "reality itself" > >is also an idea (picture) of some sort, perhaps the idea of an "unknown > >beyond". If there is Something not in the realm of ideas, it is > >simultaneously not in the realm of explanation and analysis. Thus, the > >only possible answer is "it must be seen directly or not at all." > >Dan > > > > > >------ > >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available > >at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin > >Mirror Archive Site: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > > ><< text3.html >> > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available > at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin > Mirror Archive Site: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 1999 Report Share Posted November 8, 1999 At 06:17 PM 11/8/99 +0300, you wrote: >"Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava > >As I see: > >You can see it when you close your eyes, you can also see it when you open >your eyes. A blind man sees that which is not seen... An insane man >understands it with out any difficulty, and a sane man rocks his head off in >order to understand it, through out his life time, and turns futile. > >You have to see it, directly... because a worldly person's eyes are never >capable of seeing directly. In deed, every one is seeing it, right in front >of their eyes... They can also see it by turning their eyes back 180 >degrees. Seeing is not really seeing and perceiving is also not seeing. That which causes the eyes to see, That which causes the ears to hear, That which causes the mind to think, That which animates the body, cannot be seen. -That- is the cause of seeing, not to be seen. One can only BE -That-, never SEE -That-. "I am That" is a valid statement. "I see That" is not. To turn the eyes around 180 degrees is impossible. I am not "I" or "me," but That which causes the sense of "I" and "me." Hari OM, Tim ----- Visit "The Core" Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's other pages are at http://core.vdirect.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 1999 Report Share Posted November 8, 1999 > > Tim Gerchmez [sMTP:core1] > Monday, November 08, 1999 7:31 PM > advaitin > RE: Re: direct seeing > > Tim Gerchmez <core1 > > At 06:17 PM 11/8/99 +0300, you wrote: > >"Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava > > > >As I see: > > > >You can see it when you close your eyes, you can also see it when you > open > >your eyes. A blind man sees that which is not seen... An insane man > >understands it with out any difficulty, and a sane man rocks his head off > in > >order to understand it, through out his life time, and turns futile. > > > >You have to see it, directly... because a worldly person's eyes are never > >capable of seeing directly. In deed, every one is seeing it, right in > front > >of their eyes... They can also see it by turning their eyes back 180 > >degrees. Seeing is not really seeing and perceiving is also not seeing. > > > That which causes the eyes to see, That which causes the ears to hear, > That > which causes the mind to think, That which animates the body, cannot be > seen. -That- is the cause of seeing, not to be seen. One can only BE > -That-, never SEE -That-. [Madhava Replies:] LOL :-) Obviously, one can understanding what is seeing, nobody knows what is being that! Somebody asked how to see, so you have to explain in terms of seeing :-) > "I am That" is a valid statement. "I see That" is not. To turn the eyes > around 180 degrees is impossible. [Madhava Replies:] Good! Since turning 180 degrees is impossible, then imagine of seeing that which is giving the power to the eyes, which is, let us say, behind the eyes. Just like Tarch Light bulb is trying to get off and look at the batteries. > I am not "I" or "me," but That which causes the sense of "I" and "me." [Madhava Replies:] Well said! Hari Om! > Hari OM, > > Tim > > ----- > Visit "The Core" Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - > Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. > Tim's other pages are at http://core.vdirect.net > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available > at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin > Mirror Archive Site: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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