Multi-Path or Four Path Confusion

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

Ramachangran wrote :

 

" Through Karma Yoga, the Sadhaka (seeker) diverts his/her full attention to the

action and remove the thoughts on the results. Thoughts on the results of

action are like the weeds to the farmer who plants new crops. The weeds

(thoughts) can become uncontrollable if they are not nipped in the bud. Gita

rightly claims that a Karma Yogi can ultimately go beyond thoughts and can

experience the "bliss." The Bhakti Yogi diverts all his/her thoughts on Ishwara

and surrender to Him to reach beyond all other thoughts. The Jnana Yogi

conducts Atman VichAram focuses his/her attention on meditation to go beyond

thoughts. "

 

 

I think certain misconceptions have to be cleared here. The first misconception

is that there are many paths to Moksha. The popular misconception is that Karma

Yoga is for the extrovert, Jnana Yoga for the intellectual, Bhakthi Yoga for the

Emotional and Raja Yoga for the Introvert. This is not what our shastras and

acharyaas have taught us. The cause for this samsara or life of becoming is

ignorance of our true nature. This is agreed upon by even those who propose many

paths to Moksha. But if ignorance is the problem then the only solution is to

gain knowledge or to put it differently 'Remove ignorance'. To remove any

ignorance what we need is valid knowledge from a valid means of knowledge. In

this case that valid means of knowledge is the Veda and Vedanta Shravana,

Manana and Nidhidhyasana are the only means of gaining Moksha.

The proponents of many paths who have even brought about seperate books like

Karma Yoga, Bhakthi Yoga, Jnana Yoga etc. ( I don't know the no. of Yogas being

marketed in the spiritual supermarket) fail to show us how they propose to

remove ignorance of the Self through these different paths without gaining

jnana, although they agree that ignorance is the cause of bondage. The problem

is those who write books or claim to be Gurus have no traditional knowledge of

scriptures or Sampradaya.

 

One of the sources of confusion is the chapters of Bhagavad Gita being called

Sankya Yoga, Bhakthi Yoga, Karma Yoga etc. If someone says 'There are many paths

because in Bhagavad Gita there are seperate chapters called Bhakthi Yoga etc.'

then we have to conclude then there are 18 paths to Moksha since BG has 18

chapters. Even the proponents of multiple paths cannot accept

that 'Arjuna Vishaada Yoga' or Arjuna's Sorrow is a path to Moksha. So here we

have to understand the proper meaning of the word Yoga. When we look into the

AmaraKosha the correct meaning here is 'Sangatih' or Topic. So in the first

chapter the topic is Arjuna's Sorrow and so on. The third chapter is called

'karma Yoga'. That does'nt karma Yoga is being advocated as an

independent means of Moksha. It only means Karma is the Topic in that Chapter

and not Karma Yoga because Karma Yoga has already been discussed in the second

chapter called Sankhya Yoga.So Yoga in BG chapter titles only mean topic and not

independent means of Moksha.

 

Now let us see what BG says about many paths. In chapter 3 Bhagavan says

 

'Lokesmin Dvividha Nishta pura prokta maya'. Now even if take Nistha here to

mean path Bhagavan says only 2 paths. So what about all this talk of many paths?

But the correct meaning of Nistha here is 'committed lifestyle'. Bhagavan

points out 2 different lifestyles for those who

are interested in Moksha - one a life of Karma Yogi and the other a life of a

sanyasi. But both have to gain knowledge by the study of the same scripture

only. Gaining of knowledge is the same for all whether you are a karma yogi or

sanyasi if you want Moksha. This is repeated many times in

Bhagavad Gita. So where is the question of many paths? The only path is to gain

knowledge but different lifestyles are available to prepare oneself to gain this

knowledge. So this talk of Karma Yoga for extroverts etc. is silly. Sankara in

fact classifies all Yoga like astanga Yoga etc. as only Karma Yoga.

 

Now we will analyse what is Bhakthi Yoga. Now what can the so called 'Bhakthi

yogi' do other than what a Karma Yogi can do? Nothing. Infact nobody can be a

Karma Yogi without Bhakthi because karma done with Isvaraarpana Buddhi is called

Karma Yoga. The karma can be any karma like a puja, a homa, astanga yoga or even

you office work. But the important thing is what is your attitude. Did you do it

only for the karma phala or for your own growth so that you can

gain the knowledge which will free you from all suffering. A yogi is one who

has understood the limitation of Karma phala but still does karma with the right

attitude so that he can prepare himself for receiving the knowledge. Yoga means

self growth. For growth Karma done with the right attitude ( with bhakthi and

for the purpose of purifying oneself) is essential.

So this classification of a Bhakthi Yogi is silly. All karma yogis are Bhaktas

and All bhaktas have to do karma (like puja, japa etc.).

 

So all this talk of four paths for four different people etc. is bunkum. If one

is interested in Moksha the only way to gain it is by gaining jnanam and for

gaining jnanam the only way is to do Vedanta Shravana , Manana and

Nidhidhyasana. But like any knowledge this Self-knowledge also implies a certain

preparedness on the part of the seeker. To prepare you so that this knowledge

can be received easily karma is be done with Yoga Buddhi (right attitude). For

those who are already emotionally mature a life style

of Sanyasa or renunciation is allowed. But sanyasa is not for doing social

service but to commit oneself totally to the study of the scriptures to the

exclusion of all other pursuits. Thats why we have a saying in the tradition

'Sanyasya Shravanam Kuryat' - 'Listen to the shastras after renouncing'. Sanyasa

is a life of non-competetion and non-violence committed only to study the

shastras to gain jnana.

 

with love and prayers,

 

Jaishankar.

[Guest guest]

Hari Om Jaishankar:

 

Your points are quite valid and important. Let me add some additional points

related to many paths. Even if there is only one highway that takes us toward

the Journey to Liberation, there are so many entries, exits, intersections,

cities, etc. Also the mode of transportation, the attitude and knowledge of the

Driver, driver's access to maps, road guides differ. The journey is a long

journey, entry points are many, there are too many scenic attractions, traffic

jams, other mind distractions, equipment failures, mistakes make the experience

of journey different for different seeker. The structure of Gita is so

beautiful, it takes account of those environmental characteristics of seekers

with different skills, knowledge and assets. Consequently, Gita, the manual of

self-unfoldment gets complicated creating misunderstandings and

confusion to the seeker. It may appear that the self-unfoldment consists of

many processes (paths), but this is only in appearance. When we get out of the

spell of ignorance, it seems, there are divergent paths to reach the top of the

hill. As Swami Vivekananda once said, at the top of the mountain, we can realize

that all these paths indeed lead to the same destination!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramachandran,

 

I think the problem is people talk in terms of analogies and forget what the

analogies try to convey. Your analogy of comparing the pursuit of

self-knowledge to travelling to the top a mountian is inappropriate. Please

dont compare jnana sadhyam and karma sadhyam i.e accomplishment by knowledge

and accomplishment by action. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

Please address the issues raised by me directly instead of beating around

the bush with wrong analogies.

 

What has to be understood is Bhakthi and jnana are common and necessary to

all. Whether one has to lead a life of a Karma Yogi or a Sannyasi depends

upon ones own emotional maturity and ability manage likes and dislikes.

There are no paths etc. Only two different lifestyles for achieving

self-knowledge and bhakthi is essential in both lifestyles.

 

with love and prayers,

 

Jaishankar.

 

 

Ram Chandran <chandran

advaitin

advaitin

Re: Multi-Path or Four Path Confusion

Mon, 08 Nov 1999 20:19:33 -0500

 

Hari Om Jaishankar:

 

Your points are quite valid and important. Let me add some additional

points related to many paths. Even if there is only one highway that takes

us toward the Journey to Liberation, there are so many entries, exits,

intersections, cities, etc. Also the mode of transportation, the attitude

and knowledge of the Driver, driver's access to maps, road guides differ.

The journey is a long journey, entry points are many, there are too many

scenic attractions, traffic jams, other mind distractions, equipment

failures, mistakes make the experience of journey different for different

seeker. The structure of Gita is so beautiful, it takes account of those

environmental characteristics of seekers with different skills, knowledge

and assets. Consequently, Gita, the manual of self-unfoldment gets

complicated creating misunderstandings and

confusion to the seeker. It may appear that the self-unfoldment consists of

many processes (paths), but this is only in appearance. When we get out of

the spell of ignorance, it seems, there are divergent paths to reach the top

of the hill. As Swami Vivekananda once said, at the top of the mountain, we

can realize that all these paths indeed lead to the same destination!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hari Om Jaishankar:

 

Thanks for pointing out my weekness and it seems that we both say the same

Truth, but we say it differently. I do not disagree with what you say. We all

have different backgrounds, and we communicate on the basis of what we

understand. These discussions has helped me to be a better listener and

appreciate other's viewpoints with an open mind.

 

Thanks again,

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

>"Jaishankar Narayanan"

>Dear Ramachandran,

>

>I think the problem is people talk in terms of analogies and forget what the

>analogies try to convey. Your analogy of comparing the pursuit of

>self-knowledge to travelling to the top a mountian is inappropriate. Please

>dont compare jnana sadhyam and karma sadhyam i.e accomplishment by knowledge

>and accomplishment by action. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

>Please address the issues raised by me directly instead of beating around

>the bush with wrong analogies.

>

>What has to be understood is Bhakthi and jnana are common and necessary to

>all. Whether one has to lead a life of a Karma Yogi or a Sannyasi depends

>upon ones own emotional maturity and ability manage likes and dislikes.

>There are no paths etc. Only two different lifestyles for achieving

>self-knowledge and bhakthi is essential in both lifestyles.

>

>with love and prayers,

>

>Jaishankar.

[Guest guest]

 

Jaishankar Narayanan [jaishankar_n]

Tuesday, November 09, 1999 5:40 AM

advaitin

Re: Multi-Path or Four Path Confusion

 

"Jaishankar Narayanan" <jaishankar_n

 

Dear Ramachandran,

 

I think the problem is people talk in terms of analogies and forget what the

analogies try to convey. Your analogy of comparing the pursuit of

self-knowledge to travelling to the top a mountian is inappropriate. Please

dont compare jnana sadhyam and karma sadhyam i.e accomplishment by knowledge

and accomplishment by action. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

Please address the issues raised by me directly instead of beating around

the bush with wrong analogies.

 

What has to be understood is Bhakthi and jnana are common and necessary to

all. Whether one has to lead a life of a Karma Yogi or a Sannyasi depends

upon ones own emotional maturity and ability manage likes and dislikes.

There are no paths etc. Only two different lifestyles for achieving

self-knowledge and bhakthi is essential in both lifestyles.

 

with love and prayers,

 

Jaishankar.

 

Hari Om Jaishankar Ji! Your wisdom and knowledge is much to be admired. Your

willingness to share is greatly appreciated. But the tone of your message

towards Sri Ramji appears to me to be unnecessarily harsh and assumes a

posture of superior knowledge and knowing. No doubt there is a valid

foundation for such an assumption in your mind. It seems to me that the Same

Self-Light appears to reflect differently and uniquely through each embodied

soul. Our strength of conviction, when it leads to belittlement of others,

reveals our own attachments which obscure Self-Knowledge. Our strength of

conviction, when it leads to deep and abiding faith in the words of our

Gurus and Scriptures leads to Self-Realization. Our Sages, based on their

strength of experience and understanding (and not just intellectual

knowledge of scriptures) have given us the pearls of wisdom and taught

Ahimsa Parama Dharma. Nonviolence is the first principle on all yoga paths,

however one may conceive them. The fact is that great Sages rise in every

tradition and Truth is not a monopoly of any particular system of thought as

Truth cannot be captured by thought. The Same Truth which is the Light of

Self and only Pure Self-Awareness that is Sat-Chit-Ananda is reflected

through the appearance of different mediums and hence communicated and

spoken of differently. This is demonstrated by the number of commentaries on

each major scripture. Let us make space for others to express in an attitude

of understanding. In making space for others we only make space for

ourselves and we are no where other than in the Space of Awareness.

 

Harsha.