Jaishankar/Is Guru required?

[Guest guest]

At 01:31 PM 11/10/99 IST, you wrote:

>"Jaishankar Narayanan" <jaishankar_n

>

>

>Dear Tim,

>

>you wrote:

>" I'm sorry to have to disagree. There is nothing "external" that even

>exists in the first place."

>

>You are begging the question here. That 'there is nothing "external"' can be

>known only after being exposed to the teaching by the Guru.

 

Do you not find it strange that it is known here, and this body/mind has

never been exposed to the presence of a living human Guru?

>You are mentioning their souls were ripe. What about others? Are these

>people rules or exception? We are talking of the rule here not the

>exceptions.

 

There is no "rule" or "exception." There is only Truth. The question was

put: Is a living human Guru necessary? A discussion on the matter ensued.

There has been mental disagreement (which is in fact irrelevant to what the

truth really is). Making a distinction between "rules" and "exceptions" is

in fact a typical reaction of the mind; the mind sees only duality. In

truth, there are neither rules nor exceptions, but simply What Is.

>The scripture or Vedanta are not Guides but a valid means of knowledge.

 

How does your mind define "knowledge?" Does it define as loss of

ignorance? That is true knowledge. Or does it define as accumulation of

facts? That is increase in ignorance.

>You are again begging the question. Whatever you have mentioned above can be

>known only after the Guru reveals it.

 

Surprise - no Guru has revealed to me what I mentioned above, but it was

realized without contact with a Guru.

>We are not talking about people who

>already have this knowledge but those who have to gain the knowledge that

>'There is no seeker, really'.

 

I gained it without a Guru. If I can do so, others can as well.

 

OM Shanti,

 

Tim

 

-----

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[Guest guest]

>

> Tim Gerchmez [sMTP:core1]

> Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:06 PM

> >We are not talking about people who

> >already have this knowledge but those who have to gain the knowledge that

>

> >'There is no seeker, really'.

>

> I gained it without a Guru. If I can do so, others can as well.

>

> OM Shanti,

>

> Tim

[Madhava Replies:]

Dear Tim:

 

Hari Om! After reading your "final words" e-mail, I am compelled to

say a few words. I congratulate you for your gaining, that too with out a

guru. I certainly do feel that you have every right to express it. Now, I

would beg you to come down to the lower level, which is dvaita, and think of

the less privileged mortals... The less privileged mortals, who do not know

what to do --- how will they do it.

 

Let me remind you the famous words of Lord Buddha: "saMghaM saraNaM

gaccAmi" (Let us walk hand in hand). Actually, there is no need to consult

anybody, nor there is a need to talk to anybody in the pure advaitic/nirvana

state. Yet! Buddha instructed his pupil to walk hand in hand, also the

famous piTaka "buddhaM SaraNaM gaccAmi"...

 

Though the path of advaita is "alone to the alone all alone", many

need guidance. Perhaps, letting them follow their gurus is better than

giving out a statement --- you can do with out a guru. No offence intended,

please, I am sure you may be right. Yet! let them go.

 

That is the reason in Bhagawata SriKrishna and Balarama join the

gurukula.

 

"urvin mAnavulevvarina guru vAkyOdyuktulaigAni tat

poorvAraMbhamu sEyabOlaranucun bOdhiMcu caMdaMbunan

tatpoorvAraMbhamu sEya janirA gOviMduDun rAmuDun"

 

Though, Srikrishna (the greatest teacher who taught BhagawadGita)

and Balarama are self sufficient in their knowledge, they went and joined

the school of Sandapani, just to teach the world that with out a teacher, it

is very difficult to understand it.

 

Personally, some times I feel very sad, thinking of Jiddu

Krishnamurty and few other saints, though realized, gave way for a greater

misunderstanding, through their teachings. Only a few were really able to

understand them, quite a few misunderstood them. Sad....

 

Think of lesser mortals. You are a dvaiti as long as you walk on

this earth. Remember the state of advaita, that is your goal, live in

dvaita because that is the world you did choose....

 

I beg you not to misunderstand my posting. All I requested you is

to think of the seeker, who might me reading your postings, who may not have

as realized as you, who may would like to start but do not know where to

start, who may have started but stopped because of misguidance, think of

all of them. You have a responsibility, a religious duty, you are a master.

Finally, I enjoy reading your posing, as always, I look forward to learn

more from you.

 

Best Regards,

Madhava