Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 dear friends, i feel that he who reached that stage of evolution where he 'needs' a guru(like a drowning man needs water) to him the guru will come and must come.even the external guru only plays a part in quickening the spirit but nevertheless is not a trifle and is required,after all,real religion is no joke.but very few at any given time qualify to reach that level of evolution and hence rare are the genuine gurus and equally rare are the genuine disciples.for the vast majority of mankind ;the guru is the experience of the the vast panorama that we call life.after all,the world is objective but experiences are always subjective.one day, each one of us will qualify to be a genuine disciple and further on qualify to be a genuine guru,but till such time the indwelling self(the jivatma) is our sole guru.though i am not having any scriptural backup,i hope that my observations are not entirely off the mark.---devendra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 At 05:48 PM 11/10/99 GMT, you wrote: >"Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > >dear friends, > i feel that he who reached that stage of evolution >where he 'needs' a guru(like a drowning man needs water) to him the guru >will come and must come.even the external guru only plays a part in >quickening the spirit but nevertheless is not a trifle and is required,after >all,real religion is no joke. Real religion dwells in the heart Eternally, not in an external "need" that must be fulfilled in the realm of time, space or causation. To say that there is something external to the Self that is "required" to know the *only thing in the universe that actually exists!* (Brahman) makes a joke of religion and a trifle of the Absolute, the One Reality. There is nothing external to Brahman. Brahman is the only "requirement" to know Brahman (or, more accurately, we are Brahman already, whether this is known or not). It may help to have a Guru, but to limit Brahman by using the word "required" is entirely an untruth. Everything is evolving back toward the One. Ignorance is cast of slowly, lifetime after lifetime, with or without "Guru." Eventually, everything will be back to the Source. The physicists call this "entropy." >i hope that my >observations are not entirely off the mark.---devendra. Has anyone here ever heard the saying "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him?" That means that you are the only Buddha, the only Atman, the only Brahman. There are no others. The seeing of others is an ignorance of the mind. The only person who *requires* a Guru is one who is so stuck in tradition that they cannot see beyond it, and not all fall into this category! The Atman has no tradition, no country, no place, no time. There's a lot of adherence to tradition and traditional wisdom here on this list. I can respect that, until it crosses the point of "my own" experience (not my own opinion, but my own *experience*). After it crosses that point, I have to say that I cannot agree or recommend that tradition or traditional wisdom anymore, whatever it may be. That is not to say that I am discounting it. Truth is one, sages call it by various names. Following Truth even if *everyone else in the world* disagrees, Tim ----- Visit "The Core" Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's other pages are at http://core.vdirect.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 dear friends, many of our intellectual and other problems arise because we fail to make the distinction between the absolute and the relative viewpoints( which we cannot avoid till we reach the state beyond maya);this leads to much confusion and argumentation.as is well known,there are 2 levels of truth,the absolute(there is only one absolute truth),the relative(there are infinite relative truths).both are valid in their respective places,ultimately only the absolute truth "is".these all things we "know" intellectually,but are we really one with that truth which we mouth?,we are not,at least we "feel" that we are not.that is why we run,we cry,we join mailing lists,we read books,we make a guru,we do all kinds of things,we reply to emails.....................ultimately all these things have no value whatsoever ,sruti tells us clearly.but for us,spiritual babies that we are, all is relevant for progress and will indeed become irrelevant when we reach beyond,but are we beyond as yet?,it is for the man himself to decide.we talk big,but then ;if we are indeed advaitins we require none of the foll:food,air,water,emails,....nothing!! but have we reached that stage? if somebody has reached that stage ,well,he is damn lucky,is all i can say!!!!!as for me i would prefer to walk from where i am rather than walk from where i am not.om---devendra. >Tim Gerchmez <core1 >advaitin >advaitin > Re: regards the discussion on gurus. >Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:01:00 -0800 > >At 05:48 PM 11/10/99 GMT, you wrote: > >"Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > >dear friends, > > i feel that he who reached that stage of evolution > >where he 'needs' a guru(like a drowning man needs water) to him the guru > >will come and must come.even the external guru only plays a part in > >quickening the spirit but nevertheless is not a trifle and is >required,after > >all,real religion is no joke. > >Real religion dwells in the heart Eternally, not in an external "need" that >must be fulfilled in the realm of time, space or causation. To say that >there is something external to the Self that is "required" to know the >*only thing in the universe that actually exists!* (Brahman) makes a joke >of religion and a trifle of the Absolute, the One Reality. There is >nothing external to Brahman. Brahman is the only "requirement" to know >Brahman (or, more accurately, we are Brahman already, whether this is known >or not). It may help to have a Guru, but to limit Brahman by using the >word "required" is entirely an untruth. > >Everything is evolving back toward the One. Ignorance is cast of slowly, >lifetime after lifetime, with or without "Guru." Eventually, everything >will be back to the Source. The physicists call this "entropy." > > >i hope that my > >observations are not entirely off the mark.---devendra. > >Has anyone here ever heard the saying "If you meet the Buddha on the road, >kill him?" That means that you are the only Buddha, the only Atman, the >only Brahman. There are no others. The seeing of others is an ignorance >of the mind. The only person who *requires* a Guru is one who is so stuck >in tradition that they cannot see beyond it, and not all fall into this >category! The Atman has no tradition, no country, no place, no time. > >There's a lot of adherence to tradition and traditional wisdom here on this >list. I can respect that, until it crosses the point of "my own" >experience (not my own opinion, but my own *experience*). After it crosses >that point, I have to say that I cannot agree or recommend that tradition >or traditional wisdom anymore, whatever it may be. That is not to say that >I am discounting it. Truth is one, sages call it by various names. > >Following Truth even if *everyone else in the world* disagrees, > >Tim > >----- >Visit "The Core" Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - >Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. >Tim's other pages are at http://core.vdirect.net > >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available >at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin >Mirror Archive Site: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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