Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 Dear friends, In my previous post, I wrote "The bhasyam to the Bhagavad Gita Verse 'Antavanta Ime Dehaha Nityasyoktha Sharirinaha Anoshinaha Aprameyasya tasmat yudhyasva bharatha' (2nd chapter, verse 18 ) where while explaining the word 'Aprameyasya' Shankara says Atma Vidya takes place by hearing the words of the Guru and Veda and it Destroys Ajnana." This is not correct. I apologize for posting this wrong information to the list. In future I will always refer to the books before I post. Actually this is said in the Sankara Bhasya of verse 21 of chapter 2 of BG. Anyway I referred to the Bhasyam of this verse and it is very interesting. I give a transaltion of a portion of the Bhasyam which explains the word 'Aprameyasya' here. The Translation is mine and it is not word to word. Aprameyasya - That which is not limited by any means of knowledge like Perception etc. ( Atma is not an object of any pramana-Vyapara i.e. the operation of a means of knowledge. If it is an object of knowing it will become limited. ) Purvapakshi: Is it not that the Self is determined ( i.e. limited) by the Scriptures and also by Perception etc. because everyone knows one's own existence. Then how can atma be Aprameya or that which is not an object of any pramana-vyapara. Siddhanti: This is not so. Because Atma is Self-existent. Only if the Atma's existence, which is in the form of the knower, is established first, the desirer of knowledge can search for a means of knowledge. Without knowing oneself as 'So and So' nobody tries to know other things. ALso every1body is familiar with the Self's existence without the need for using any Pramana. So the Self which is Self-revealing and Self-existent is not limited by the operation of any means of knowledge or Pramana. Shastra is the last or ultimate means of knowledge. Its status as a means of knowledge is only wrt the removal of superimposition of the qualities of Anatma (Atatdharma-adyaropana-matra-nivartakatvena Pramanatvam) and not wrt revealing an unknown atma to us. Notes: In this discussion Shankara points out that even though Atma is not an object of any means of knowledge, Atma jnana takes place by using Shastra as a means of knowledge and it is in the form of the removal of the Adyasa (superimposition) i.e. ajnana, which makes one take the qualities of mind etc as one's own. Verse 21 , chapter 2 BG Vedavinashinam nityam ya yenam ajam avyayam Katham sa pusha: Partha kam ghatayati hanti kam In the Bhasya of this verse Shankara argues with a Purva-Mimamsaka who says even a jnani should do karma because it is ordained by the Veda. But Shankara argues that a jnani is only qualified for 'Sarvakarma-Sanyasa' ( Renunciation of all actions by knowing that the self is not a karta i.e. actor. 'Sarvakarma-Sanyasa is really another word for 'Moksha'.) In this context the discussion is as follows ( again the translation is mine ): Purvapakshi : Sarva-karma Sanyasa is not possible because the Knowledge that the Self (Atma) is free from Shadvikaras (Six Modifications which are Birth,existence,growth,metamorphosis,decay and death) and it is changeless (Avikriya) and it is not an actor (Akarta) is not possible. Siddhanti : What you say is not correct. Because if it is so then the Gita verse 'Na Jayate etc.'(Chap 2,verse 20) will become meaningless. Further you accept that from ShastraUpadesa (teachings of Shastra), the knowledge of Dharma and the knowledge of the existence of a Soul other than the body, is produced. Similarly the knowledge that this atma is Akarta, Avikriya etc. is also produced by the Same Shastra's Upadesa. Purvapakshi : Because the Atma is not available for any means of perception (Karana-agocharatvat) the knowledge of Atma is not possible. There is no means for knowing this Self as Akarta etc. Siddhanti : No. Because the Shruti says 'Manasa Eva Anudrshtavyam' - 'The Self has to be seen only by the Mind' (Br. Up 4.4.19) the mind, which is characterised by qualities like shama, dama etc. and which has received the teachings of the Guru and the Shastra, is the means to know Atma. So, wrt the gain of Self-knowledge the support of Logic and the Statements of Shruti being there, to say that this knowledge is not produced is merely a fantasy. That Self-Knowledge is produced and that it destroys its counterpart ignorance is to be accepted by all. I hope these discussions by Shankara make it very clear that Atma Jnanam is intellectual and it takes place in the mind which has certain qualifications. with love and prayers, Jaishankar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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