RE: Questions by PBV Rajan

[Guest guest]

>

> P B Varadharajan [sMTP:pbvrajan]

> Sunday, November 21, 1999 8:02 PM

> 51. He suggested I put it before satsang. My comments and questions are as

>

> follows:

>

[Madhava Replies:]

Dear Rajan,

 

I shall wait for the answers from other members of this list. Mean

while, I will try to answer what ever I came to know.

 

Note to the members of this list:- If anybody is wondering what

this "PB" in Rajan's name stands for, it is his Sir Name, it stands for -

"prativAdi bhayaMkara" :-)

> 1) As per our Hindu & Vedic thought, Are some people more closer to God

> than

> all others?

[Madhava Replies:]

Please refer Bhagawad Gita, the holy book of Hindus. There it is

said "samOhaM sarva bhootEshu namE dvyEshyOsti na priyaH". Bhagawan Krishna

says that he is equal to everyone, neither there is somebody he dislikes nor

there is somebody who is dear to him.

 

Everybody is closer to God. Then the question: How close? He is

closer than the closest thing you could ever imagine.

> 2) If so,What is the secret, how can such a "special relationship" be

> enhanced by one or more of the following:

>

[Madhava Replies:]

In my humble opinion, "Maha Bhagawata" is the answer. The entire

book of Bhagawata is nothing but a relationship that they have with God,

including the writer...

 

I am not answering for your question, in an ABCD fashion because

what ever I answer will be flawed... Because, Relationship is subjective.

Nobody can dictate you on how you should behave,(of course, there are these

so-called counsellors now a days :-)), with your wife, children and

friends. You will behave according to your will.

> 3) We are not alone in this world as Hindus. How will such a complex

> nonlinear algebric differential society, compete for followers and genuine

>

> practioners against a) 1/0 based Islam b) Simple arithmetic of "Majority

> rules minority" of Christian Democrats or c) Money talks- principle of new

>

> west.

[Madhava Replies:] IMHO, competition is a strong word to use.

There exists a tremendous flexibility in Hinduism. Everybody is encouraged

to have a personal God and a relationship with him. Other religions are

nothing but the story of a faith towards a personal God. As we talk about

Narayana, Siva, Brahma, Lalita, Lakshmi so on and so forth, they talk about

Jesus, Allah, Jehovah so on and so forth.

 

Hindus are flexible because a true Hindu knows that there is no

difference in deed. Of course, this flexibility has caused a lot of

displeasure to some people who felt that Hinduism is declining because of

conversion blah blah... Their fear is baseless. How can a true Hindu can

ever be converted? A person, who thinks that he had been a Hindu and

getting converted, will remain a Hindu for ever. By the conversion he may

be embracing another God. Mind you, Hindus do this in their regular life...

We are not surprised about a person who adores Lord Venkateswara, one day

wakes up and starts adoring Goddess Lalita. But we get surprised at

somebody who adores Lord Venkateswara and one day wakes up and starts

adoring Jesus. We get concerned and worried. Why! Because we think that

we lost a Hindu. Where as a true Hindu can never be lost, because Hinduism

by allows the followers the choice of a personal God.

 

I would never recommend anybody to brand Hinduism. For me, Hinduism

is more than a religion, it is like an ocean, and all the so-called

religions are nothing but waves in Hinduism. Like the waves never can get

separated from the ocean, the world religions can never get a separate

identity beyond Hinduism. Hinduism is not a business. In business, people

get worried by loosing their money. If we have a business kind of

relationship with our religion, we feel the same way like a businessman

does...

> 4) My own present hypothesis is all humans, the 6 billion of them, are

> just

> particles like meteor orbiting the God and absorobing his radiance. God

> does

> not differentiate between us because all these particles are from him. I

> am

> aware (now) that Advaitin philosophy is different and I am trying to grasp

>

> its fundamentals. It is simply stated "Thou are that" but quite complex to

>

> arrive at.

[Madhava Replies:]

One day everyone will arrive...

> I am no doubt glad that I am part of Hindu & Democratic society that lets

>

> us to question and learn, rather than accept only what is told.

[Madhava Replies:]

You said it.

> Hari OM

>

> > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

> focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

> are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

> Address: advaitins

>

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

shri Madhava mentioned in his response that PB stands for PrativAdi

Bhayankara. I read sometime ago that the composer of shrI Venkateshwara

suprabhAtam.h is PrativAdi Bhayankara Anna. Is that the same or similar

family origin ?

 

I will try to respond to some of the questions which shri Varadharajan

raised, not as a final answer but more as discussion material.

 

On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, P B Varadharajan wrote:

> "P B Varadharajan" <pbvrajan

>

> Advaitin Satsang. from: P.B.V.Rajan, Jeddah

>

> OM Namo Narayana and Namaskaram.

>

>

> [...]

>

> He suggested I put it before satsang. My comments and questions are as

> follows:

>

> 1) As per our Hindu & Vedic thought, Are some people more closer to God than

> all others?

>

 

God, or much more correctly, Atman is closest to us and everyone is

as close as anyone else.

 

However, if your question is "Are some people more knowing of their

closeness to God than others?", then my answer is yes, depending on

their spiritual growth. Everyone is as close to divine as anyone can

be, however, some people may know it and some people may not know it.

It is this knowing that we are striving for.

> 2) If so,What is the secret, how can such a "special relationship" be

> enhanced by one or more of the following:

>

> a) Cumulative Result of previous births

> b) Formal learning and mastery of Vedas in sanskrit

> c) Atmavidya (New terminology I picked up from one list)

> d) Yogic practices (like the yogis walking on water & heating it)

> e) Active social work without self interest

> f) Regular and sincere prayers at home

> g) Just doing ones' work sincerely & with integrity

> h) Birth in a particular family/ community and following its rules

> (I was brought up by my family with f,g &h values.I am exploring the

> validity of a to e in the last 2 years in a more determined manner)

>

 

As was quoted recently on this List, "IshwarAnugrahAtyeva pumsAM advaita

vAsanA" avadhUta gIta (1), it is by God's grace that we get in touch with

advaita vedAnta, and that is it that governs it. In addition, citta

shuddhi, and untying of knots of desire from the heart.

> 3) We are not alone in this world as Hindus. How will such a complex

> nonlinear algebric differential society, compete for followers and genuine

> practioners against a) 1/0 based Islam b) Simple arithmetic of "Majority

> rules minority" of Christian Democrats or c) Money talks- principle of new

> west.

>

 

I do not think any religion or philosophy is competing here for the followers.

What is of interest is the attainment of moksha. When moksha is attained,

everything will take care of itself, because the Consciousness is the only

thing there is. Even if you are part of money-talking west, 1/0 (?) based

Islam, or of "majority rules minority" christian democrats or a Hindu, it

does not matter. When the right time comes, you will be led to the correct

path.

> 4) My own present hypothesis is all humans, the 6 billion of them, are just

> particles like meteor orbiting the God and absorobing his radiance. God does

> not differentiate between us because all these particles are from him. I am

> aware (now) that Advaitin philosophy is different and I am trying to grasp

> its fundamentals. It is simply stated "Thou are that" but quite complex to

> arrive at.

>

> I am no doubt glad that I am part of Hindu & Democratic society that lets

> us to question and learn, rather than accept only what is told.

>

> Hari OM

>

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

>

> Gummuluru Murthy [sMTP:gmurthy]

> Wednesday, November 24, 1999 3:28 AM

> advaitin

> Re: Questions by PBV Rajan

>

> Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

>

> namaste.

>

> shri Madhava mentioned in his response that PB stands for PrativAdi

> Bhayankara. I read sometime ago that the composer of shrI Venkateshwara

> suprabhAtam.h is PrativAdi Bhayankara Anna. Is that the same or similar

> family origin ?

[Madhava Replies:]

Dear Murthygaru,

 

namatE! You are right. Prativadibhayamkara Varada Rajan belongs to

the same family. He is the descendent of H.H. PrativAdi Bhayankara

AnnamgAchari who wrote Sri Vemkateswara suprabhatam.

 

The "prativAdi bhayaMkara" family is very famous for their

contribution to vishisTAdvaita saaMpradAya. I would like to mention the

story that I heard, on how their family got this sir name.

 

Some time in the tenth century, Buddhists were deeply involved in

converting many Hindus into Buddhism. They were penetrating deep in to

South India. They went to Kanchi and converted many Hindus as Buddhists. A

vishnava Scholar vowed to reconvert all the Buddhists into Hinduism and went

to debate with Buddhists. The great debate took place in the presence of

The emperor of Kanchi. The debate went for weeks long and finally Buddhists

accepted their defeat and all the converted people again reconverted in to

Hinduism. The King of Kanchi was extremely happy to see that his religion

withstood the debate. He honored this Scholar with agraharas and gave the

title "PrativAdi BhayaMkara", it means "someone who is feared (for his

scholarly knowledge) by the counter party in the argument"

 

Rajan's grand father PrativAdibhayamkara annaMgaachari is famous for

his scholarly works on "vishistAdvaita".

 

Regards,

Madhava

[Guest guest]

I am very sorry Rajan, I thought of writing that you are related as a

grandson to him. Any way, that shouldn't deter me from respecting you

:-)... Please accept my honest apologies. Thank you.

 

Regards,

Madhava

>

> P B Varadharajan [sMTP:pbvrajan]

> Wednesday, November 24, 1999 3:30 PM

> advaitin

> RE: Re: Questions by PBV Rajan

>

> "P B Varadharajan" <pbvrajan

>

> Advaitin Satsang

>

> Om Namo Narayana & namskarams

>

> Ref message from: "Madhava K. Turumella"

> >Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:37:29 +0300

> >Rajan's grand father PrativAdibhayamkara annaMgaachari is famous for

> >his scholarly works on "vishistAdvaita".

> >

> >This is just to clarify, I am not his Grandson, although I am from the

> >family. In fact he had no sons (only daugthers) and adopted a grandson to

>

> >carry on the work related to Mutt in his name in Kanchipuram. My maternal

>

> >Grandfather was the legal counsel (late N.S. Bashyam Iyengar) to him and

> >used to visit P.B.A quite often and I sometimes accompanied him and I

> have

> >met the Scholar Udabashyagar P.B.Annagrachari. Unfortunately I never

> >realized his greatness till recently which is entirely my fault. I only

> >knew about his works after I saw the publication by Madras University

> >celebrating his 100th anniversary (by department of Vaishnava studies)

> >which incredibly I saw it here in Middle East. When I went to Madras

> >recently I tried to buy a personal copy but was told it is out of

> >Print.Hope I get the chance to make up for these lapses.

>

> I do not claim any knowledge, let alone scholarship of Vishistadvaita.

>

> Hari OM.

>

> > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

> focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

> are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

> Address: advaitins

>

[Guest guest]

Advaitin Satsang

 

Om Namo Narayana & namskarams

 

Ref message from: "Madhava K. Turumella"

>Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:37:29 +0300

>Rajan's grand father PrativAdibhayamkara annaMgaachari is famous for

>his scholarly works on "vishistAdvaita".

>

>This is just to clarify, I am not his Grandson, although I am from the

>family. In fact he had no sons (only daugthers) and adopted a grandson to

>carry on the work related to Mutt in his name in Kanchipuram. My maternal

>Grandfather was the legal counsel (late N.S. Bashyam Iyengar) to him and

>used to visit P.B.A quite often and I sometimes accompanied him and I have

>met the Scholar Udabashyagar P.B.Annagrachari. Unfortunately I never

>realized his greatness till recently which is entirely my fault. I only

>knew about his works after I saw the publication by Madras University

>celebrating his 100th anniversary (by department of Vaishnava studies)

>which incredibly I saw it here in Middle East. When I went to Madras

>recently I tried to buy a personal copy but was told it is out of

>Print.Hope I get the chance to make up for these lapses.

 

I do not claim any knowledge, let alone scholarship of Vishistadvaita.

 

Hari OM.