Introduction & Heavy Head

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

My name is Nicholas. I have recently joined your list. I live in St.Albans,

England (25 miles North of London). I have been very interested in much of

the discussion so far but I am struggling to follow some of the more

intellectual discourse. I would like to offer a short story from a Buddhist

source (hope this is ok) and pose a question. What is the effect, in the

moment, of this sort of questioning? Devendra, what happened when you chose

to hibernate ? And what happened that you chose to enter back into the

dialogue ? Can you remember the moment of choice and what occurred ? I also

find myself alternating between intellectual analysis and giving this up as

leading nowhere, only to come back to it again. But my current feeling, like

the story below, is that my head feels heavy (mental indigestion !) I am

interested to know:

 

- the source of the desire that causes me to question

- what causes me to retire from questioning ? (a recognition of its futility

?)

- on retiring from the analysis, have I gained anything that I didn't have

before ? (seems that I do ?)

 

 

I hope these questions are useful. I would be interested to know the

experience of others.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Nicholas John Street

 

 

Hogen, a Chinese Zen master, lived alone in a small temple in the country.

One day four travelling monks appeared and asked if they might make a fire

in his yard to warm themselves. While they were building the fire, Hogen

heard them arguing about subjectivity and objectivity. He joined them and

said "There is a big stone. Do you consider it to be inside or outside of

your mind?" One of the monks replied "From the Buddhist viewpoint everything

is an objectification of the mind, so I would say that the stone is inside

my mind". "Your head must feel very heavy", observed Hogen, "if you are

carrying a stone like that in your mind."

[Guest guest]

dear nicholas,

i too am heavily alternating between the things you mention.

i guess we all want solitude(this much we agree on:-)) but as yet have'nt

the strength to stand it for long...........thus alternating we

live....waiting for that moment when genuine vairagya(spiritual

hunger/dispassion/renunciation) will descend on us making us restless as man

whose head is on fire.

yes, i stand by what i have said.........the only utility of

reasoning(rather ,of "anything") is that it helps bring forth the futility

of reasoning(of "anything")

religion basically is an intensely subjective and private experience --who

experiences ,knows..........

after all,what is the meaning of it all---

why do we have to know anything at all?

why do we have to analyse....................

why do we have to ask why????

like the lord says in the gita(i think chp.2)just a loose translation.....

"when your intellect has come to a firm conviction after being tossed about

by various viewpoints then you shall attain to yoga"

indeed it is terrible......this terrible struggle and there is no other

option.. we have to go thro' the grind.......

"what seems like poison like first but which culminates in bliss that

happiness is sattvika"--somewhere in the gita.

we have put our faith in HIM and are waiting...........HE is a trickster we

know that ;but he loves us..HE is calling us but we are busy analysing HIM

instead of embracing HIM....i hope the day when we leave all nonsense and

run to him--- comes soon.

i quote some beautiful passages from sw. ashokananda's book--'religion: it's

practice and prelimnaries':

"intellect reduces even a living thing to an idea;religion makes even an

idea a living thing... if spirituality is different from intellectualism

,why did we recommend the pursuit of knowledge as a preparation of

religion?the reason is obvious.the utility of knowledge is more or less

negative in character.we want knowledge not for any positive gain,but to rid

ourselves of the gross side of our nature,to reach a state of refinement

where we can usefully and efficiently take up the culture of

spirituality.....we thus see three different evaluations of intellectualism:

1st stage- it 's culture is positively beneficial as it leads to refinement

of mind

2nd stage --we realize it does not lead to spiritual knowledge proper ..but

we still have to cultivate it till we are engulfed by an overwhelming love

of god

3rd stage--our mind has become thoroughly concentrated,we want god

alone..the world seems trash..intellectualism is then an obstruction and

even painful"

i think ka.up(not sure) says: it(brahman) can be realized by those whose

intellect is sharp and subtle

i personally feel those who have passed thro' reasoning & have realized the

futility of it have the sharpest of intellects.

dear friend

many times the thought comes to renounce ALL and seek contemplation on the

absolute alone --the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...the wish is

there but the will to actualize it is weak.....that is the terrible

tragedy,,,but for each the time will come in time...it must come

i hope this mail does'nt spark off another debate..i have'nt the strength

for it

sorry i haven't addressed your questions...or have i?

accept my sincerest gratitude for raising the excellent questions which to

me seem full of pathos .-devendra(i hope you are comfortable with vedantic

jargon/books and could follow my ruminations)

>"Street, Nicholas {QA~Welwyn}" <NICHOLAS.STREET

>advaitin

>"Advaitin (E-mail)" <advaitin >

> Introduction & Heavy Head

>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:56:57 +0100

>

>Namaste

>

>My name is Nicholas. I have recently joined your list. I live in St.Albans,

>England (25 miles North of London). I have been very interested in much of

>the discussion so far but I am struggling to follow some of the more

>intellectual discourse. I would like to offer a short story from a Buddhist

>source (hope this is ok) and pose a question. What is the effect, in the

>moment, of this sort of questioning? Devendra, what happened when you chose

>to hibernate ? And what happened that you chose to enter back into the

>dialogue ? Can you remember the moment of choice and what occurred ? I also

>find myself alternating between intellectual analysis and giving this up as

>leading nowhere, only to come back to it again. But my current feeling,

>like

>the story below, is that my head feels heavy (mental indigestion !) I am

>interested to know:

>

>- the source of the desire that causes me to question

>- what causes me to retire from questioning ? (a recognition of its

>futility

>?)

>- on retiring from the analysis, have I gained anything that I didn't have

>before ? (seems that I do ?)

>

>

>I hope these questions are useful. I would be interested to know the

>experience of others.

>

>Kind Regards,

>

>Nicholas John Street

>

>

>Hogen, a Chinese Zen master, lived alone in a small temple in the country.

>One day four travelling monks appeared and asked if they might make a fire

>in his yard to warm themselves. While they were building the fire, Hogen

>heard them arguing about subjectivity and objectivity. He joined them and

>said "There is a big stone. Do you consider it to be inside or outside of

>your mind?" One of the monks replied "From the Buddhist viewpoint

>everything

>is an objectification of the mind, so I would say that the stone is inside

>my mind". "Your head must feel very heavy", observed Hogen, "if you are

>carrying a stone like that in your mind."

>

>

>

>------

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>focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

>are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

>Address: advaitins

>

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