Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 This is a conversation from another list but members here may wish to contribute -------mesgs--------- Hi Anurag This ideas of five elements have puzzled me too. I love Kapila's Samkhya darshan and this idea of five elements, etc sometimes do not seem to be in line with present findings. We have to remember that this Rishis were 'in touch with the underlying reality'. The knowledge they derived was not by mental gymnastics it was a very real first hand experience when one 'comes face to face with the underlying truth' hence they cannot be wrong yet we must also remember that they had to express this experience in the vocabulary and manner suited to their own times. Their experiences were not limited - however their expressions were limited. Hence for me it is very important to try and re-examine the teachings of Kapila in light of more recent day 'Rishis' like Vivekananda. Vivekananda gives a superb explanation of what the universe is made of:- Just two elements:- 'AKASH' "All penetrating existence" - (Akash - He says it is not vacuum or empty space but existence. AND 'Prana' - this prana cannot be separated from existence and yet it makes existence take on this manifold appearance. This is in line with the findings of science today. This re-learning via the teachings of recent rishis is what makes spirituality interesting. It also shows up the importance of such recent personalities. Sometimes I lash out at some meetings and tell the Hindus - Why should Vivekananda measure up to your past 'Rishis' or even the teachings of your vedas'? I make an opposite claim --- either the 'rishis and these vedas measure up to the teachings of Vivekananda or they lose their vibrancy! Why cannot the teachings be refreshed? Is mankind not evolving? Through science don't we have an excellent idea of what this universe is about? Mankind has moved on and the teachings of 'recent rishis' become very relevant. jay Anurag Goel Ramakrishna <Ramakrishna > 06 December 1999 10:25 [ramakrishna] Five Elements >Anurag Goel > > >I was never able to understand how >can we and whole nature be created from just five elements Earth, Water, >Fire, Air and Space (Ether,Vacuum). > > Yesterday i had some thought on it. N >i realised that Earth would mean all solids, Water will mean all liquids, >Fire will mean all kind of similar energies, n Space the vacuum. With this >view i think we can say that whole creation is made up of these five >elements. On the basis of broad structural organisation of constituents >everything can be categorised by these five elements Earth, Water, Fire, >Air and Space. Gravitation is one of the characteristics which might be >playing agr8 role in these five elements. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 I wish to make a few points. 1) All that is necessary to be taught is to impress upon the mind to seek it source and remain in it. To use Vivekananda's words , "Do this by devotion, selfless work, philosophy or psychic control or a combination of all these and BE FREE" . 2) In other words there is no teaching that needs to be refreshed , but each teaching is meant for a particular audience. Again to use Vivekananda's words, "I wish there were as many sects of religion as there are people so that each teaching may suit each person". 3) The teachings of ancient rishis become valid as one moves inwards within ourselves. I suppose people then were more spiritually advanced then us and hence their teachings are for people who have felt themselves as spirit. Anand >I make an opposite claim --- either the 'rishis and these vedas >measure up to the teachings of Vivekananda or they lose their vibrancy! >Why cannot the teachings be refreshed? Is mankind not evolving? Through >science don't we have an excellent idea of what this universe is about? >Mankind has moved on and the teachings of 'recent rishis' become very >relevant. > >jay > > >Anurag Goel >Ramakrishna <Ramakrishna > >06 December 1999 10:25 >[ramakrishna] Five Elements > > >>Anurag Goel >> >> >>I was never able to understand how >>can we and whole nature be created from just five elements Earth, Water, >>Fire, Air and Space (Ether,Vacuum). >> >> Yesterday i had some thought on it. N >>i realised that Earth would mean all solids, Water will mean all liquids, >>Fire will mean all kind of similar energies, n Space the vacuum. With this >>view i think we can say that whole creation is made up of these five >>elements. On the basis of broad structural organisation of constituents >>everything can be categorised by these five elements Earth, Water, Fire, >>Air and Space. Gravitation is one of the characteristics which might be >>playing agr8 role in these five elements. >> > >>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins > > A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 Hari Om Jay: Shri Anand Natarajan has made some interesting observations and let me add some additional comments. First, Vedas are beyond time (eternal with no beginning and ending) and is always valid. The person with the wisdom can only understand the TRUTH of Vedas without duality and the rest of us had difficulty in sorting out the truth. The ancient Rishis were keen in promoting enquiries with an open mind and without indulge in subjective judgements. Swami Vivekananda greatly respected and followed this great tradition and was fully aware of the pitfalls of conducting enquiries with preconceived ideas. He understood that buddhi (discriminating intellect) is a human virtue, the gift of God and he smartly utilized this gift of God to the benefit of mankind all over the world. The ancient rishis and Swami Vivekananda have great understanding of the scriptures and they were totally opposed to blind faith. We should avoid all our personal preferences in conducting enquiries so that our buddhi is kept free from distortions. Our love for Swami Vivekananda should not be expressed through any dislike for those who value the ancient wisdom. Such likes and dislikes are created by polluted the mind to distort the truth and to damage the buddhi. In Bhagavad Gita, (Chapter 2, verses 62 and 63) Lord Krishna describes the sequence of events when attachment takes roots in the mind. The attachment springs desire and from desire comes anger. Anger creates confusion which causes loss of memory and the destruction of buddhi starts immediately. Then with the destruction of buddhi we lose our character and we become indiscriminate and start accusing others for our faults. Now it is time to turn our attention to the question: "Why should Vivekananda measure up to your past Rishis or the teachings of your vedas?" Before I pose this question to others, I should pose the question, "What made me to doubt that Swami Vivekananda does not measure up to our past Rishis or the teachings of our vedas?" I should take time to contemplate and try to find an answer myself within and not from outside. Such contemplation does require purity of mind possessing the discriminating intellect. I should first avoid conducting such an enquiry with a distorted mind and with anger. I should be ready to wait for more time to come to a conclusion rather than finding quick answers. I should also look at the past history and evaluate the past events. As a matter of fact, Shankara was considered a revolutionary by the pandits of his time and they angrily accused him that he is not measuring up to the past rishis and the teachings of vedas. After several centuries, such questions disappear from the mind of the doubters. At every point of time there will be always some doubters with new questions and others emerge to clear such doubts. This cycle of doubters coming and going is also a part of the Brahman. Your opposite claim is rather haste and unnecessary! There is no need to make comparisons between apples and oranges. We need both the apples and oranges and we should develop an attitude to accept them and use them as we like. Apples and Oranges have no quarrel on their superiority and our distorted mind is responsible for finding the disparities between them! Regards, Ram Chandran > "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > ............. > This re-learning via the teachings of recent rishis is what makes > spirituality interesting. It also shows up the importance of such recent > personalities. > Sometimes I lash out at some meetings and tell the Hindus - Why should > Vivekananda measure up to your past 'Rishis' or even the teachings of your > vedas'? > I make an opposite claim --- either the 'rishis and these vedas > measure up to the teachings of Vivekananda or they lose their vibrancy! > Why cannot the teachings be refreshed? Is mankind not evolving? Through > science don't we have an excellent idea of what this universe is about? > Mankind has moved on and the teachings of 'recent rishis' become very > relevant. > > jay > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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