Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Hello All, Forgive a mundane example but I recently had the desire to buy a piece of music and it occurred to me that my enjoyment would be limited and transient and I was inclined to put it back on the shelf. Then it occurred to me - why should I not get limited enjoyment from it? Everything in this physical world is transient. Which Upanishad is it that states "Claim Nothing. Enjoy" ? Is it not acceptable to have the desire, act on it and then give it up without claiming? If I cannot do this with a piece of music then I am unlikely to achieve it with a relationship or with my life which are also transient. Can we use the acting out of small desires without claiming as a practice for engaging with the transient whilst remaining centred? Surely we have to do this each time we eat, sleep, talk, write e-mails !! I would also like to share something else in relation to this event. I was also aware, whilst considering my purchase, that I was probably the witless target for marketing men who like to con eskimos into buying fridges. Then I thought that my decision also needn't be affected by this knowledge. Someone told me once "freedom is wearing your raincoat in the rain even when your mother tells you to" Apologies for my flippancy. I am in a humorous mood! Kind Regards, Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 dear friends, to me ,the whole desire discussion seems to be centred around free will. each man has free will and choice.the choice is entirely upto us.we may desire nectar or may desire filth---what is it to brahman?--who is above all phenomena. the loss is entirely ours,the gain is entirely ours. the great ones,the sruti only indicate to us the path to blessedness.like ka.up says: those who chose the good chose rightly, those who chose the pleasent miss the goal. it's like the lighthouse principle---if the ship doesn't follow the lighthouse it crashes and sinks--it is nothing to the lighthouse.the clinging to desire is nothing surprising since countless births we have indulged in "enjoyments" even mtv endorses that!!---so it is difficult to digest when the topic of renunciation comes up.people want a comfortable religion ,a short cut to liberation.as for myself,i believe using the instrument of mind/body(with it's desires,tendencies) for approaching the truth is not a wrong decision/desire..while using it for sensual enjoyment,greed is wrong...each is free to decide--i may be wrong. but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably roars: "BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Ya know I really like what Ramana Maharshi seemed to say about free will. I took it to mean that we have free will to resist in fear our circumstances, or to embrace God experiencing through us with Love & acceptance. That's what I got out of it. He said I think, that ~ so long as we have individuality ~ we think we have 'free will'. In unity it is a different awareness. Bye now, Col Devendra Vyas wrote: > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > dear friends, > to me ,the whole desire discussion seems to be centred around > free will. > each man has free will and choice.the choice is entirely upto us.we may > desire nectar or may desire filth---what is it to brahman?--who is above all > phenomena. the loss is entirely ours,the gain is entirely ours. the great > ones,the sruti only indicate to us the path to blessedness.like ka.up says: > > those who chose the good chose rightly, those who chose the pleasent miss > the goal. > > it's like the lighthouse principle---if the ship doesn't follow the > lighthouse it crashes and sinks--it is nothing to the lighthouse.the > clinging to desire is nothing surprising since countless births we have > indulged in "enjoyments" even mtv endorses that!!---so it is difficult to > digest when the topic of renunciation comes up.people want a comfortable > religion ,a short cut to liberation.as for myself,i believe using the > instrument of mind/body(with it's desires,tendencies) for approaching > the truth is not a wrong decision/desire..while using it for sensual > enjoyment,greed is wrong...each is free to decide--i may be wrong. > but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably roars: > "BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 yes,it is all in our distorted thinking.we are dreaming that we "have" desires,we "have" an individuality,we "have " a choice---in this dream trying to "wake up" is a "good" desire while trying to prolong the dream is a "bad " desire---of course,ultimately all these concepts have no relevance since it's just a dream. as long as the dream lasts the desire to flee the dream lasts---the desire to give up the dream is also a part of the dream---i have a good quote by sri nisargadatta maharaj on this---hope to send it soon,bye for now--devendra. >Colette <colette >advaitin >advaitin >Re: Desire >Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:09:31 +1100 > >Ya know I really like what Ramana Maharshi seemed to say about free will. > >I took it to mean that we have free will to resist in fear our >circumstances, or to embrace God experiencing through us with Love & >acceptance. > >That's what I got out of it. He said I think, that ~ so long as we have >individuality ~ we think we have 'free will'. In unity it is a different >awareness. > >Bye now, > >Col > >Devendra Vyas wrote: > > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > > dear friends, > > to me ,the whole desire discussion seems to be centred >around > > free will. > > each man has free will and choice.the choice is entirely upto us.we >may > > desire nectar or may desire filth---what is it to brahman?--who is above >all > > phenomena. the loss is entirely ours,the gain is entirely ours. the >great > > ones,the sruti only indicate to us the path to blessedness.like ka.up >says: > > > > those who chose the good chose rightly, those who chose the pleasent >miss > > the goal. > > > > it's like the lighthouse principle---if the ship doesn't follow the > > lighthouse it crashes and sinks--it is nothing to the lighthouse.the > > clinging to desire is nothing surprising since countless births we have > > indulged in "enjoyments" even mtv endorses that!!---so it is difficult >to > > digest when the topic of renunciation comes up.people want a comfortable > > religion ,a short cut to liberation.as for myself,i believe using the > > instrument of mind/body(with it's desires,tendencies) for approaching > > the truth is not a wrong decision/desire..while using it for sensual > > enjoyment,greed is wrong...each is free to decide--i may be wrong. > > but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably roars: > > "BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" > > > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email >Address: advaitins > > > > >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email >Address: advaitins > ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 >"Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 >but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably roars: >"BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" But when renunciation is the desire, one must renounce renunciation. I'm not just playing with words here. It is a fine thing to desire liberation, but also necessary to know that you are what Brahman is within you and not "you" at all. At that point, renunciation is a denial of the will of Brahman to manifest as s/he will. Tamra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Hi. I am very interested to hear this quote. I also agree melancholically about the desire to seek release from duality. Then we face the fear of ego expansion through constant dying to familar boundaries. You see I believe in a pure ego which allows 'some' thin individuality for cosmic Being to express in as us? And what of us? Do we exist? Or are we this One? I get confused, cause there seems to be a hierarchy ~ yet of One energy expressing as many personas even divine Ones! Oi! Ahh the play of mystery! Bye now, Col > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > as long as the dream lasts the desire to flee the dream lasts---the desire > to give up the dream is also a part of the dream---i have a good quote by > sri nisargadatta maharaj on this---hope to send it soon,bye for > now--devendra. > > >Colette <colette > >advaitin > >advaitin > >Re: Desire > >Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:09:31 +1100 > > > >Ya know I really like what Ramana Maharshi seemed to say about free will. > > > >I took it to mean that we have free will to resist in fear our > >circumstances, or to embrace God experiencing through us with Love & > >acceptance. > > > >That's what I got out of it. He said I think, that ~ so long as we have > >individuality ~ we think we have 'free will'. In unity it is a different > >awareness. > > > >Bye now, > > > >Col > > > >Devendra Vyas wrote: > > > > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > > > > dear friends, > > > to me ,the whole desire discussion seems to be centred > >around > > > free will. > > > each man has free will and choice.the choice is entirely upto us.we > >may > > > desire nectar or may desire filth---what is it to brahman?--who is above > >all > > > phenomena. the loss is entirely ours,the gain is entirely ours. the > >great > > > ones,the sruti only indicate to us the path to blessedness.like ka.up > >says: > > > > > > those who chose the good chose rightly, those who chose the pleasent > >miss > > > the goal. > > > > > > it's like the lighthouse principle---if the ship doesn't follow the > > > lighthouse it crashes and sinks--it is nothing to the lighthouse.the > > > clinging to desire is nothing surprising since countless births we have > > > indulged in "enjoyments" even mtv endorses that!!---so it is difficult > >to > > > digest when the topic of renunciation comes up.people want a comfortable > > > religion ,a short cut to liberation.as for myself,i believe using the > > > instrument of mind/body(with it's desires,tendencies) for approaching > > > the truth is not a wrong decision/desire..while using it for sensual > > > enjoyment,greed is wrong...each is free to decide--i may be wrong. > > > but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably roars: > > > "BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" > > > > > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email > >Address: advaitins > > > > > > > > > >------ > >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email > >Address: advaitins > > > ><< text3.html >> > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 sorry not able to find it,here's something similar: the very search for pleasure is the cause of pain. the seeker is he who is in search of himself. -sri.n.mhj. om. >Colette <colette >advaitin >advaitin >Re: Desire >Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:40:40 +1100 > >Hi. I am very interested to hear this quote. I also agree melancholically >about the desire to seek release from duality. Then we face the fear of ego >expansion through constant dying to familar boundaries. You see I believe >in a pure ego which allows >'some' thin individuality for cosmic Being to express in as us? And what of >us? Do we exist? Or are we this One? I get confused, cause there seems to >be a hierarchy ~ yet of One energy expressing as many personas even divine >Ones! > >Oi! > >Ahh the play of mystery! > >Bye now, > >Col > > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > > as long as the dream lasts the desire to flee the dream lasts---the >desire > > to give up the dream is also a part of the dream---i have a good quote >by > > sri nisargadatta maharaj on this---hope to send it soon,bye for > > now--devendra. > > > > >Colette <colette > > >advaitin > > >advaitin > > >Re: Desire > > >Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:09:31 +1100 > > > > > >Ya know I really like what Ramana Maharshi seemed to say about free >will. > > > > > >I took it to mean that we have free will to resist in fear our > > >circumstances, or to embrace God experiencing through us with Love & > > >acceptance. > > > > > >That's what I got out of it. He said I think, that ~ so long as we have > > >individuality ~ we think we have 'free will'. In unity it is a >different > > >awareness. > > > > > >Bye now, > > > > > >Col > > > > > >Devendra Vyas wrote: > > > > > > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > > > > > > dear friends, > > > > to me ,the whole desire discussion seems to be >centred > > >around > > > > free will. > > > > each man has free will and choice.the choice is entirely upto >us.we > > >may > > > > desire nectar or may desire filth---what is it to brahman?--who is >above > > >all > > > > phenomena. the loss is entirely ours,the gain is entirely ours. the > > >great > > > > ones,the sruti only indicate to us the path to blessedness.like >ka.up > > >says: > > > > > > > > those who chose the good chose rightly, those who chose the pleasent > > >miss > > > > the goal. > > > > > > > > it's like the lighthouse principle---if the ship doesn't follow the > > > > lighthouse it crashes and sinks--it is nothing to the lighthouse.the > > > > clinging to desire is nothing surprising since countless births we >have > > > > indulged in "enjoyments" even mtv endorses that!!---so it is >difficult > > >to > > > > digest when the topic of renunciation comes up.people want a >comfortable > > > > religion ,a short cut to liberation.as for myself,i believe using >the > > > > instrument of mind/body(with it's desires,tendencies) for >approaching > > > > the truth is not a wrong decision/desire..while using it for sensual > > > > enjoyment,greed is wrong...each is free to decide--i may be wrong. > > > > but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably >roars: > > > > "BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" > > > > > > > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta >Philosophy > > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List >Archives > > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact >Email > > >Address: advaitins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------ > > >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List >Archives > > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact >Email > > >Address: advaitins > > > > > ><< text3.html >> > > > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email >Address: advaitins > > > > >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email >Address: advaitins > ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Yeah thanks. Devendra Vyas wrote: > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > sorry not able to find it,here's something similar: > > the very search for pleasure is the cause of pain. > > the seeker is he who is in search of himself. > -sri.n.mhj. > om. > I like that quote but here's how I see it so far from where I am, & I know I have far to go. Our manifest self exists in a dualistic field of existence. So ... well so long as we are only aware of our manifest self we have no choice, but TO SEEK. Seeking then is hope & faith & the pull to unify. Once Nothing Self (impersonal, God, Being) is reached, then seeking is a way bad idea. You see then .. one is both simultaneously at first. I think. So it is wise to practice identifying MOST with unmanifest Self then, I suppose, to merge further into One ,Self, Being. But the manifest self has a habit of seeking and does not acknowledge that One is already found :-) And that is when seeking is not good! In my opinion, of course. The contraction of seeking may still occur but we need to learn to let it go. Those who do not Know have no choice but to seek. Those who Know, now have choice and need to exercise conscious choice for encouraging Self, as one's reference point, not limited human ego. As I see it, Bye now, (Good chatting) Col > >Colette <colette > >advaitin > >advaitin > >Re: Desire > >Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:40:40 +1100 > > > >Hi. I am very interested to hear this quote. I also agree melancholically > >about the desire to seek release from duality. Then we face the fear of ego > >expansion through constant dying to familar boundaries. You see I believe > >in a pure ego which allows > >'some' thin individuality for cosmic Being to express in as us? And what of > >us? Do we exist? Or are we this One? I get confused, cause there seems to > >be a hierarchy ~ yet of One energy expressing as many personas even divine > >Ones! > > > >Oi! > > > >Ahh the play of mystery! > > > >Bye now, > > > >Col > > > > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > > > > as long as the dream lasts the desire to flee the dream lasts---the > >desire > > > to give up the dream is also a part of the dream---i have a good quote > >by > > > sri nisargadatta maharaj on this---hope to send it soon,bye for > > > now--devendra. > > > > > > >Colette <colette > > > >advaitin > > > >advaitin > > > >Re: Desire > > > >Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:09:31 +1100 > > > > > > > >Ya know I really like what Ramana Maharshi seemed to say about free > >will. > > > > > > > >I took it to mean that we have free will to resist in fear our > > > >circumstances, or to embrace God experiencing through us with Love & > > > >acceptance. > > > > > > > >That's what I got out of it. He said I think, that ~ so long as we have > > > >individuality ~ we think we have 'free will'. In unity it is a > >different > > > >awareness. > > > > > > > >Bye now, > > > > > > > >Col > > > > > > > >Devendra Vyas wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Devendra Vyas" <dev_vyas74 > > > > > > > > > > dear friends, > > > > > to me ,the whole desire discussion seems to be > >centred > > > >around > > > > > free will. > > > > > each man has free will and choice.the choice is entirely upto > >us.we > > > >may > > > > > desire nectar or may desire filth---what is it to brahman?--who is > >above > > > >all > > > > > phenomena. the loss is entirely ours,the gain is entirely ours. the > > > >great > > > > > ones,the sruti only indicate to us the path to blessedness.like > >ka.up > > > >says: > > > > > > > > > > those who chose the good chose rightly, those who chose the pleasent > > > >miss > > > > > the goal. > > > > > > > > > > it's like the lighthouse principle---if the ship doesn't follow the > > > > > lighthouse it crashes and sinks--it is nothing to the lighthouse.the > > > > > clinging to desire is nothing surprising since countless births we > >have > > > > > indulged in "enjoyments" even mtv endorses that!!---so it is > >difficult > > > >to > > > > > digest when the topic of renunciation comes up.people want a > >comfortable > > > > > religion ,a short cut to liberation.as for myself,i believe using > >the > > > > > instrument of mind/body(with it's desires,tendencies) for > >approaching > > > > > the truth is not a wrong decision/desire..while using it for sensual > > > > > enjoyment,greed is wrong...each is free to decide--i may be wrong. > > > > > but as far as i can hear-- the voice of the sruti unmistakably > >roars: > > > > > "BY RENUNCIATION ALONE THE BLESSED ONES ATTAINED LIBERATION" > > > > > > > > > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta > >Philosophy > > > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List > >Archives > > > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact > >Email > > > >Address: advaitins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------ > > > >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > > > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List > >Archives > > > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact > >Email > > > >Address: advaitins > > > > > > > ><< text3.html >> > > > > > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email > >Address: advaitins > > > > > > > > > >------ > >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy > >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives > >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email > >Address: advaitins > > > ><< text3.html >> > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Colette wrote: > [...] > You see I believe in a pure ego which allows 'some' thin individuality > for cosmic Being to express in as us? And what of us? Do we exist? Or are > we this One? I get confused, cause there seems to be a hierarchy ~ yet of > One energy expressing as many personas even divine Ones! yes. this is a profoundly important point, and one notoriously unaccounted for. Sankara himself alluded to the fact that he retained "an ego of knowledge" in order to transmit the teachings. we both exist in THIS MANY and yet are THAT ONE. consideration here could be made: who is it that becomes 'liberated' and never to be born again into the wheel of rebirth, while 'others' are yet representative of an eternal wave manifesting in and out of samsara? if Sankara became the ONE, who or what is now cast into samsara, if not this selfsame ONE [as all of us]? no. moksha is here and now, for the taking. there is no real liberation, or renunciation. as the Maharshi told us, "the only obstacle to Self-realization, is thinking you are bound." in the early going, desire has to be reckoned with. there's a point reached where it however no longer represents gravity, simply because the awareness is seated in the source brahman, and nothing within Its specific projections [in thoughts, words, deeds, etc] can ever again be delimiting. for, such delimitation was ever only a product of erroneous isolated thinking. this is why to refer to oneself as being yet unrealized is simply blunderous, because it is predicated on an isolated habit of perception: the habit of believing in the specific dictates of the internal thought stream. one way to approach the psycho-spiritual catharsis in moksha, is to consider the implication of who we mathematically are [this is only an indicator]: the IAM is every conceivable thought in spacetime [in the infinite eternal] locked in the kernel of the absolute silence of Now. the IAM is the Plenum and the Void. yet, to stumble on a limit is part of the Play... moksha pays no mind to such limits. OM.peace in ONE now and forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 "f. maiello" responding to Collette: >Colette wrote: >> [...] >> You see I believe in a pure ego which allows 'some' thin individuality >> for cosmic Being to express in as us? And what of us? Do we exist? Or are >> we this One? I get confused, cause there seems to be a hierarchy ~ yet of >> One energy expressing as many personas even divine Ones! > >yes. this is a profoundly important point, >and one notoriously unaccounted for. > >Sankara himself alluded to the fact that he >retained "an ego of knowledge" in order to >transmit the teachings. > >we both exist in THIS MANY and yet are THAT ONE. >consideration here could be made: who is it that >becomes 'liberated' and never to be born again >into the wheel of rebirth, while 'others' are >yet representative of an eternal wave manifesting >in and out of samsara? I like both the central idea that there is a positive role for 'individuality' within the Lila, and also the possible implications of that last phrase about 'others' [and Jiva, I presume] being representatives of an eternal wave manifesting in and out of samsara. Seems compatible with Aurobindo's Vedantic vision, as far as I can tell. Namaste, -- Max --------------------------- DAILY NEWS @ http://www.PhilosophyNews.com FREE EMAIL @ http://www.Philosophers.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Here are some quotations on this topic "Desire" . Q .What to desire ? A. "In order to be everything , desire to be Nothing ". - St . Francis Of Asissi Q. I cannot do this. What do I do ? "Abhyasena Tu Kaunteya Vairagyane Cha Grihyathe" (By (steady)PRACTISE and DISPASSION one obtains (Yoga)" -Bhagavad Gita - chapter 6. Q. How do I practise? A. "Athii Thadapi Asmamarthosi Karthumadhyogam Aashrithaha. Sarva Karma Phala Tyagam Tatha Kuru Yathathmavan. " If you cannot do this ,Do work for my sake . Sacrifise the fruits of your work, do this by being established in the Self ". Q. What do I do to my desires ? A." Aapoornamaapi achala Pradhitshtam Samudramaapi Pravishanti Yadvath" "Tadhvath kamayam Pravishanti Sarve Sa shantimapnothi na kama kami " "Not the desirer of desires ,but he attains peace in whom all desires merge even as the ocean remains calm and still even when the rivers of water flow into it ". Q. I am too weak to get to this state. What do I do ? A. "Strength is what the Upanishads speak to me. They say, "Oh man! Be strong , Be not weak. All strength and succour are already in you" ." If you wish you can swallow the stars by the handful. Such is your glory ." "So Arise , Awake and stop not till the Goal is reached". -Swami Vivekananda However ONE act of surrender knocks of ignorance that might take years of hard effort. Even The Sage Patanjali after listing out his elaborate Raja Yoga says, you can do all this OR "IshwaraPranidhyam va" "Or (You will get everything that you get through Raja yoga) by surrendering to God". A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Hi Frank & everybody(one) f. maiello wrote: > "f. maiello" <egodust > > Colette wrote: > > [...] > > You see I believe in a pure ego which allows 'some' thin individuality > > for cosmic Being to express in as us? And what of us? Do we exist? Or are > > we this One? I get confused, cause there seems to be a hierarchy ~ yet of > > One energy expressing as many personas even divine Ones! > > yes. this is a profoundly important point, > and one notoriously unaccounted for. > > Sankara himself alluded to the fact that he > retained "an ego of knowledge" in order to > transmit the teachings. I heard that Krishnamurti said that we need an ego to go to the toilet. That is that 'form' no longer 'bound to,' being taken care of. I do believe that one's 'actual form' is much larger though (like everything). I hear talk of emotional mental & etheric bodies. Sometimes I think unifying means becoming so empathic that you 'feel' others' emotional bodies as one's own. No boundary, but yes some own individuality maintained to work with witness consciously. Are we one form? :-) > we both exist in THIS MANY and yet are THAT ONE. > consideration here could be made: who is it that > becomes 'liberated' and never to be born again > into the wheel of rebirth, while 'others' are > yet representative of an eternal wave manifesting > in and out of samsara? if Sankara became the ONE, > who or what is now cast into samsara, if not this > selfsame ONE [as all of us]? > > no. moksha is here and now, for the taking. > there is no real liberation, or renunciation. > as the Maharshi told us, "the only obstacle to > Self-realization, is thinking you are bound." > in the early going, desire has to be reckoned > with. there's a point reached where it however > no longer represents gravity, simply because > the awareness is seated in the source brahman, > and nothing within Its specific projections > [in thoughts, words, deeds, etc] can ever again > be delimiting. for, such delimitation was ever > only a product of erroneous isolated thinking. > > this is why to refer to oneself as being yet > unrealized is simply blunderous, because it is > predicated on an isolated habit of perception: > the habit of believing in the specific dictates > of the internal thought stream. I wonder though that perception is still utilised, & is refined & sharpened to celestial perception? That is also why body is important though I don't know if it is actually physical body which perceives at higher levels. > one way to approach the psycho-spiritual catharsis > in moksha, is to consider the implication of who > we mathematically are [this is only an indicator]: > the IAM is every conceivable thought in spacetime > [in the infinite eternal] locked in the kernel of > the absolute silence of Now. the IAM is the Plenum > and the Void. > > yet, to stumble on a limit is part of the Play... > > moksha pays no mind to such limits. > > OM.peace in ONE > now and forever Nice one Frank. I always enjoy your work. Thanks. Colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 I will also share that as a meditator I was warned not to go too far. That I was abolute AND manifest. That if you go too far you can drop your body :-) My teacher describes it as ~ before realisation enlightenment is carefully managed . After realisation ~ ignorance is carefully managed (just a hint ~ enough to maintain a body). This is funny :-) That all great Masters who were ever here teaching, had to maintain enough duality to maintain form for others to locate them. Just Sharing away, Col > > "f. maiello" <egodust > >> > > Sankara himself alluded to the fact that he > > retained "an ego of knowledge" in order to > > transmit the teachings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Hey Colette, Great line about management. Who's your teacher? --Greg At 08:43 AM 12/11/99 +1100, Colette wrote: >Colette <colette > >I will also share that as a meditator I was warned not to go too far. >That I was abolute AND manifest. >That if you go too far you can drop your body :-) > >My teacher describes it as ~ before realisation enlightenment is carefully managed . >After realisation ~ ignorance is carefully managed (just a hint ~ enough to maintain a body). >This is funny :-) > >That all great Masters who were ever here teaching, had to maintain enough duality to maintain form for others to locate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 great stuff--much better than sophistry --the voice of authority. >"Anand Natarajan" <anandn >advaitin >advaitin >Re: Desire >Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:18:14 -0800 > >Here are some quotations on this topic "Desire" . > >Q .What to desire ? >A. "In order to be everything , desire to be Nothing ". - > St . Francis Of Asissi > >Q. I cannot do this. What do I do ? >"Abhyasena Tu Kaunteya Vairagyane Cha Grihyathe" > (By (steady)PRACTISE and DISPASSION one obtains (Yoga)" >-Bhagavad Gita - chapter 6. > >Q. How do I practise? > >A. "Athii Thadapi Asmamarthosi Karthumadhyogam Aashrithaha. > Sarva Karma Phala Tyagam Tatha Kuru Yathathmavan. > " If you cannot do this ,Do work for my sake . Sacrifise the fruits of > your work, do this by being established in the Self ". > >Q. What do I do to my desires ? >A." Aapoornamaapi achala Pradhitshtam Samudramaapi Pravishanti Yadvath" >"Tadhvath kamayam Pravishanti Sarve Sa shantimapnothi na kama kami " >"Not the desirer of desires ,but he attains peace in whom all desires merge >even as the ocean remains calm and still even when the rivers of water flow >into it ". > >Q. I am too weak to get to this state. What do I do ? >A. "Strength is what the Upanishads speak to me. They say, "Oh man! Be >strong , Be not weak. All strength and succour are already in you" ." If >you wish you can swallow the stars by the handful. Such is your glory ." >"So Arise , Awake and stop not till the Goal is reached". >-Swami Vivekananda > >However ONE act of surrender knocks of ignorance that might take years of >hard effort. Even The Sage Patanjali after listing out his elaborate Raja >Yoga says, you can do all this OR >"IshwaraPranidhyam va" >"Or (You will get everything that you get through Raja yoga) by >surrendering to God". > > > > > > >A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology >Network. >Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com > >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email >Address: advaitins > ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 Colette wrote: > > I heard that Krishnamurti said that we need an ego to go to the toilet. > That is that 'form' no longer 'bound to,' being taken care of. I do believe > that one's 'actual form' is much larger though (like everything). I hear talk > of emotional mental & etheric bodies. Sometimes I think unifying means becoming > so empathic that you 'feel' others' emotional bodies as one's own. No boundary, > but yes some own individuality maintained to work with witness consciously. > Are we one form? :-) yes, we are many cells in one human archetypal organism, which is, in turn, many cells in a larger organism, which is, in turn, many cells in a...etc. ad infinitum, in *both* directions. why not? this is as valid as any other theory of the world appearance. yes, the relative spectrum is as fantastic as its unknowable Cause. the night sky should really shut the mouth of our audacious Mind...thinking it can really know something in the midst of this Vast. yet we have every right to be entertained by the Quest, even though it can never yield any boxes of neat answers... :-) the toltec shaman don Juan Matus once said, "we're surrounded by pure mystery, anything we think we know of it is folly." namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 Nicholas, Street, Nicholas {QA~Welwyn} wrote: > > "Street, Nicholas {QA~Welwyn}" <NICHOLAS.STREET > > Hello All, > > Forgive a mundane example but I recently had the desire to buy a piece of > music and it occurred to me that my enjoyment would be limited and transient > and I was inclined to put it back on the shelf. Then it occurred to me - why > should I not get limited enjoyment from it? Everything in this physical > world is transient. Which Upanishad is it that states "Claim Nothing. Enjoy" > ? Is it not acceptable to have the desire, act on it and then give it up > without claiming? If I cannot do this with a piece of music then I am > unlikely to achieve it with a relationship or with my life which are also > transient. Can we use the acting out of small desires without claiming as a > practice for engaging with the transient whilst remaining centred? Surely we > have to do this each time we eat, sleep, talk, write e-mails !! > > I would also like to share something else in relation to this event. I was > also aware, whilst considering my purchase, that I was probably the witless > target for marketing men who like to con eskimos into buying fridges. > Then I thought that my decision also needn't be affected by this knowledge. > Someone told me once "freedom is wearing your raincoat in the rain even when > your mother tells you to" > > Apologies for my flippancy. I am in a humorous mood! > > Kind Regards, > > Nick. > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available > Yes, that sounds exactly right regarding the opening line of the Isha Upanishad. One may enjoy music. It is a very beautiful part of this play. Music has the power to bring the inner instrument of mind to stillness and to nourish the heart. It is important to nourish the heart and spirit. The Absolute does not intend any suffering in this play. Unhappiness comes in when one/we try to claim, to hold on to, what has been experienced. Enjoy music and then offer it back to its Source. Aand yes, how quickly the claimant, the ghost in the machine, creeps back in--the thought that you were a target for marketing men--and tries throw one off center and reestablish the hegemony of the claimant. Of course, meditation is a crucial practice (in several senses) in surrendering claims to any experience. Well seen. Thank you. Kenneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2000 Report Share Posted February 3, 2000 namaste, For a lesser known side of Blake, please see: http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeII/Blake.html Regards, S. ----Original Message Follows---- "Madhava K Turumella" <madhava advaitin <advaitin > Re: Desire Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:55:45 -0800 It is very interesting to know about Blake. I can feel the saintliness in his words. Personally, what I feel is that he is on no-track. i.e. neither on the right track nor on the wrong track, no track at all. If you say there is something wrong, then you should have already known what is right. Now, how did you know that what you already knew is right? Please keep posting your interesting articles. I remain yours, Madhava ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2000 Report Share Posted February 3, 2000 - Patrick Kenny <pkenny > My understanding of this is that there > is nothing wrong with having desires or > striving to fulfill them as long as we > keep the precept of karmayoga in mind. > So much for Blake's bona fides. > Naturally, this will not appeal to all > members of the list but I'm curious to > know if anybody thinks that Blake is on > the right track? > First of all, thank you for your interest in discussions. Your understanding corresponds to Gita. There was a elaborate discussion on Desires on this list, please search the archives. It is very interesting to know about Blake. I can feel the saintliness in his words. Personally, what I feel is that he is on no-track. i.e. neither on the right track nor on the wrong track, no track at all. If you say there is something wrong, then you should have already known what is right. Now, how did you know that what you already knew is right? Please keep posting your interesting articles. I remain yours, Madhava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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