[ramakrishna] women's rights

[Guest guest]

dear madhavaji,

i liked your thoughts very much.like they say--"judge not a

man by his faults",a race should be judged by it's best not it's worst.india

should not be judged by khajuraho,bhangra and kamasutra--if at all it has to

be judged it must be by looking at sankara,vivekananda,ramakrishna.

and which race/nation is perfect and above all discrimination ? the

communists laughed at image worship and did'nt think twice before erecting a

grand structure for lenin's dead body!!!!was not apartheid the worst caste

system that ever was???

moreover educated hindus are truly global citizens , above all narrowness

--hence they are competing shoulder to shoulder with the best in the world.

it saddens me to see that people judge our motherland/religion only in one

or two aspects and come to the wrong conclusions.very few take the time to

study the ancient religion in it's entirety and view it in the proper

perspective.

[Guest guest]

[in defense of Hinduism - Madhava]

 

This is going to be a quick reply but an in-depth reply is on the anvil (as

a dairy of thoughts I am seriously spending time on now a days). I would

much anticipate my teacher's reply on this, as she has done more than twenty

years of research on Manu and the role of strees and soodras in Hinduism.

 

Most of the times people who criticize the Hinduism, lead their readers in

to greater misunderstanding. One should not be carried away with the wrong

quotations. I did not mean that the source of the quotes is wrong, but the

quoted context is wrong. Each quoted sloka is addressed in a specific

context. One need to read the context fully and then try to evaluate it

from an birds-eye view, then only one can understand the context of each

sloka that is quoted.

 

For example the Atharvaveda Seer cries because he is worried of an off

spring who is full of worldly desires. (stree = "s"atva + "r"ajas +

"t"amas) The same Atharva veda condemns, people who are strees and

completely indulge in worldly activities by ignoring the higher self, it

looks down at Shoodras (the humans who are tamasic predominant, which

hinders them from understanding the reality). Veda is an esoteric book

which is written in a cryptographic language. One needs to have the the key

to understand it.

 

Here is a way to understand Hinduism:

 

There is the religious angle and there is a social angle to the Hinduism.

The religious angle says that there is the omniscient Brahman who is veiled

with trigunas (satva+rajas+tamas) because of which brahman (deva) has become

a Human (jeeva).

The life that the jeeva lives though is nothing but a struggle to reach back

to the absolute state.

 

Then the social angle tries to understand/dissect the struggle that the

jeeva undergoes in order to become the deva (God). Since man is not alone

in the world, a law is necessary in order to protect the interests of every

individual. It is easy to enforce a law if you could classify the possible

obstacles. Hence the Seers have categorized the world in to four varnas

based on the combination of trigunas. It is because of the combination of

trigunas there are four varnas (CATEGORIES - *NOT* CASTES) emerged in the

world. Those who can only think (brahmins), Those who can protect the

thinkers+treasurers+physical workers (kshatriyas), those who are treasurers

(vaisas), those who are working class (shoodras)

 

The same "Manu" who is said to have criticized the Shudras says at one place

"janmanA jAyatE soodrO karmanA dvija ucyatE". A human by birth is a soodra,

but by the virtue of the work that he performs, he becomes a dvija

(brahmin). The word "soodra" is derived from the word "Soodraka" means

fetus. So a person who behaves like a fetus (vegetable!) even after fully

grown is called as a soodra. How ever, our ancestors did not look them

down, they provided a chance to even imbecile (?) people to participate in

the society.

 

Manu has written a book which structures the"social angle" of Hinduism,

which in turn leads the humans to purification and puts them in to religious

angle.

 

I am *not* disagreeing with the fact that the above system is completely

abused later days. I demand you, show me a system in this world which is

not abused...! Everybody makes mistakes. There is ethnic discrimination

every where in the world. We try to enforce the law in order to protect the

interests of everybody. We try to change it, if the law becomes obsolete

and gets misused!

 

For example we still have a law in Indian Penal Code which says that a

Police Inspector should take his hat off in case he faces any Royal Person

or a person who belongs to the royal family! This law is created in the

year 1854! There is no more monarchy in India. Still the law is existing

in our Indian Penal Code. Why didn't they delete it? is because it takes

time to see things going obsolete. HINDUS have realized their mistake, no

more any educated Hindu thinks of caste discrimination. Here when I say

educated Hindu, I mean --- he who studied both religious and social angles

of Hinduism. I remind you, Hinduism is the only religion which allows it

followers to freely think and adopt new ideas (anO bhadrO kratavO yaMtu

visvataH - Let noble thoughts come from all the sides).

 

Now a days, it is the other way round, in India the government enforces the

discrimination on the people, and the politicians abuse it for the sake of

political power. The very same people, who wanted to forget their much

abused past, are being forced to live with it in present and future also!

As long as any government officially sponsors and recognizes the caste

certificates, the system gets abused. This is not the fault of Hinduism but

the fault of the so-called constitution.... Remind you: Manu's also was a

constitution for Hindus long back!

 

Conclusively: Try to understand the religion in its entirety. Try to

understand its history, where it was and where it is now, where it would

lead. Try to understand how our ancestors tried to implement the religious

goal through its social angle. Hinduism has been our culture for times

immemorial, let us better understand it, we live like Hindus and we die like

Hindus. Hence let us understand it fully. It is better than reading the

so-called research findings, which are gravely biased.

 

Regards,

Madhava

 

 

-

Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda

<ramakrishna >

Sunday, December 19, 1999 1:30 AM

[ramakrishna] women's rights

 

> "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda

>

> >From Daksha Patel:

>

> Whilst conducting research for my University assignment I came across the

> following information which those on the onlesit may find of interest.

>

> Scholars like Alteker, Kapadia and Ludira have maintained that there is

not

> much differentiation between man and woman. Still, we find from the verses

> in the Rig Vedas that men and women are given a higher and lower status

> respectively. It is said that a woman has a role to play in ceremonies and

> sacrifices andthat both men and women are equal in the eyes of religion;

it

> is stated at another place in the same Rig Veda that a son is needed for

> escaping hell. "Oh God! Protect my son who is to be born. Let my offspring

> be man and not woman."(Aatharva Veda 2-3-23)

> "Oh God! you have given me progeny. Give me a son, woman can be born

> elsewhere but give my only a boy." A woman's defeat begins even when she

is

> conceived. The mother who pines for a son becomes disheatened at seeing

the

> birth of a girl. She begs for pardon from the family members as if she has

> committed a crime.

> It is written in the Satapatna Brahm and that a woman without a son is an

> unfortunate being. That shows that her life is virtually linked with a

> desire for a son. In fret her family life is interwined with the anguish

for

> a son. In Atharva Veda it is affirmed that marriage is meant for offspring

> only and that too a boy. The description of the woman's character in the

> Vedas is cruel and heinous. An exhortation is mad to man that he should

run

> away from the friendship of women as a woman is cruel like the wolf.

> (Rig Veda 6-5-82)

> The statements that dogs, crows, shudras and women belong to the same

class,

> that sinfulness, deceit and ignorance are naturally inherent in women and

> hence they should be kept away. It is stated in a verse in Rig Veda

(8-3-77)

> that a woman is bereft of intelligence and is unfit for education.

> In Atharva Veda a woman is described as property.

> Manu Smriti (2000BC) prescribes duties and obligations for a woman from

> childhood to death. According to it, she should be a perpetual minor, to

be

> under the guardianship of someone or the other. The attitude she has to

> display, and her conduct towards her husband have been laid down in

extense

> in the Smriti. They run thus: "Even if the husband is immoral and debauch

> and lacks good qualities the wife must still worship him as if here were

god

> himself. (5-154)"

> It is bounden duty of women to obey and follow the dictates of their

> husbands (yajnavalkya 1-18) A woman need not perform any Yagna or ceremony

> or undertake any fast for her salvation. She will attain better life by

> service to her husband only. (Manu 5-145) The woman who fasts and performs

> 'vrats' during her husband's life time contributes to the lengthening of

her

> husband's life. The woman who drinks the water with which she has washed

her

> husband's body and feet at sacred springs rivers and seas will inherit

best

> life (atri 136-137)

> There is no other world to the wife same that of her husband. The wife who

> has done harm to her husband cannot go to her husband's lok. (place of

> residence in heaven) after his death. Therefore, women should never cause

> discontent to their husbands(vasishta 21-24) The king should punish the

> woman who takes pride in her parental family and thereby shows

disobedience

> towards her husband by throwing her to the dogs to be torn to pieces

before

> the multitude of people (manu 8-871)

> [a statement] which equates woman with a shudra. Divine water (water used

> during worship) shall be given to man thrice. It shall be given only once

to

> a woman and shudra. No penance is necessary if a woman or a shudra is

> killed.

>

> There is a widely prevelant misconception that the woman's position was

very

> high during the Vedic period, that there was no 'sati' and that it cam

into

> vogue only dring the puranic period. Verse no 18-3-1 of Atharva veda

belies

> the view. The meaning is clear. "The woman who burns herself on the

funeral

> pyre of her husband reaches her husband. All comforts shall be hers. What

> she has done is the best course of action"

>

> Daksha Patel.

>

> Vivekananda Centre Site

> http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda

>

> > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/

>