Guest guest Posted December 25, 1999 Report Share Posted December 25, 1999 beautiful --thanks for sharing >Colette <colette >advaitin >advaitin >Re: White Clouds >Sat, 25 Dec 1999 20:21:45 +1100 > >Hello everyone. > >I would like to share this quote from Osho which makes it clearer for me >about the relationship between thought, & witness. > >~*~ > >"Will- power is not really power but weakness. A really powerful man has no >will of his own ~ the whole is his will. > >He floats like a white cloud, one with the existence, in tune with it. > >Your will will always create conflict. It will shrink you, make you an >island, & then the struggle starts. > >A will-less person will be naturally headless. And remember, you cannot get >out of your head. You can cut it ~ & that is easier. Getting out of it is >almost impossible, because even this concept of getting out is part of it. > >The head is a mess, it is a chaos. You think, & you also think against >thinking. You are not moving out of it. You can condemn your thoughts, but >this condemning is again a thought. Nothing has been achieved, you are >moving in a vicious circle. You >can go on moving but you will not be out. > >So what to do? How to get out of the head? > >Only one thing is possible: don't create any effort to come out, because >every effort will be self-suicidal. What can be done then? Simply watch. Be >in & watch. Don't try to get out ~ be in & watch. > >And if you can watch, in those moments of watchfulness there will be no >head. >Suddenly you will be beyond. Not out ~ beyond. Suddenly you will be >hovering beyond yourself. " > >~OSHO~ "My Way ~ The Way of the White Clouds" > > >Best Regards, > >Colette > > >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives >are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email >Address: advaitins > ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 1999 Report Share Posted December 25, 1999 >Colette <colette <snip> >So what to do? How to get out of the head? > >Only one thing is possible: don't create any effort to come out, because every effort will be self-suicidal. What can be done then? Simply watch. Be in & watch. Don't try to get out ~ be in & watch. > >And if you can watch, in those moments of watchfulness there will be no head. >Suddenly you will be beyond. Not out ~ beyond. Suddenly you will be hovering beyond yourself. " This quotation corresponds exactly to my own experience, meager as it may be, and indeed what Osho recommends is the only form of meditation from which I have ever gained any sort of lasting insight, not to mention relief from tension and so on. It is just passively gazing in a non-identifying and non-participating way at whatever arises. There is no chosen object of meditation because the act of choosing itself brings the mind back into the process. I understand that it is possible in principle to use the mind to go beyond the mind, but in my case I find that if I give mind any role at all, it tends to take over and choke everything else out. Also while this passive witnessing is going on, it is possible to be aware of the 'I' before which everything passes, in Ramana's sense of self inquiry. I would be fascinated to hear the comments of the more advanced members on various meditation techniques (or lack thereof) and how they relate to so-called one-pointedness and self inquiry. Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 1999 Report Share Posted December 25, 1999 Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday period. Parisi & Watson wrote: > "Parisi & Watson" <niche > > >Colette <colette > <snip> > >So what to do? How to get out of the head? > > > >Only one thing is possible: don't create any effort to come out, because > every effort will be self-suicidal. What can be done then? Simply watch. Be > in & watch. Don't try to get out ~ be in & watch. > > > >And if you can watch, in those moments of watchfulness there will be no > head. > >Suddenly you will be beyond. Not out ~ beyond. Suddenly you will be > hovering beyond yourself. " > > This quotation corresponds exactly to my own experience, meager as it may > be, and indeed what Osho recommends is the only form of meditation from > which I have ever gained any sort of lasting insight, not to mention relief > from tension and so on. It is just passively gazing in a non-identifying and > non-participating way at whatever arises. There is no chosen object of > meditation because the act of choosing itself brings the mind back into the > process. I understand that it is possible in principle to use the mind to go > beyond the mind, but in my case I find that if I give mind any role at all, > it tends to take over and choke everything else out. Also while this passive > witnessing is going on, it is possible to be aware of the 'I' before which > everything passes, in Ramana's sense of self inquiry. > > I would be fascinated to hear the comments of the more advanced members on > various meditation techniques (or lack thereof) and how they relate to > so-called one-pointedness and self inquiry. > > Robert. > Hi Robert I am not posting as an advanced member. I would just like to share how I have found meditation. I myself practiced a mantra meditation for a long time. That yes did give me one pointed attention & an awareness of inner silence. But the monkey mind still dances thoughts for me. It is like I have an inner Self silent awareness .. & an outer active mind (self) as well. This is like being dual & non dual, both. How to handle having both at the same time? Reading quotes like that help me too. Yes it is like life becomes meditation then. More on the white clouds ~ "A white cloud exists without any roots ~ it is an unrooted phenomenon, grounded nowhere, or grounded in the nowhere. But still it exists. The whole of existence is like a white cloud ~ without any roots, without any causality, without any ultimate cause, it exists. It exists as a mystery ... A white cloud has nowhere to go. It moves, it moves everywhere. All dimensions belong to it. Nothing is rejected. Everything is, exists in total acceptability .... That is why I call my way The Way of the White Clouds. The white clouds have no way of their own ~ they drift. A way means reaching somewhere. White Clouds' Way means a pathless path, a wayless way, moving without a mind. Mm? ~ This has to be understood, because purpose is synonomous with mind. That's why you cannot conceive how to live without purpose, because the mind cannot exist without purpose .. Meditation cannot have any purpose because meditation means a state of no mind ~ ehere you are, but not going anywhere; where just being, just to be, is the goal. The goal is here & now. Once the goal is somewhere else mind starts its journey. Then the mind starts thinking, then the mind starts a process. If future is there then mind can have a flow, then mind can have its course, then mind has space to move. With purpose comes future, with future comes time. A white cloud hovers in the sky, timeless ~ because there is no future & no mind to it. It is here & now. Each moment is total eternity." ~OSHO~ 'My Way ~ The Way of the White Clouds' Best Regards, Colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 1999 Report Share Posted December 25, 1999 Dear friends, the following message from Maitreya, send a few days ago might shine some more light on "fast ways" of meditation. Maitreya is sharing nearly dayly with his friends and is trying to bring the two big spiritual ways to enlightenment, meditation and advaita closer together. If you want to receive his messages send a -message to hariomtatsat_. merry holidays for the western friends Peace on Earth firak Maitreya Ishwara www.ishwara.com Fast Methods Beloved Friends Love There are three potent methods for awakening that have all been proved for thousands of years by many seekers. The most essential is meditation. The essence of meditation is witnessing. It means consciousness is aware of the content of mind, and ultimately of itself, with equanimity. Shiva shares 112 methods of meditation, the common factor to most of them is witnessing. By sitting silently watching the movie of your mind gaps of silence appear. As you get the knack of resting in the gap, flowers of consciousness start showering until finally enlightenment happens. This is the classic method of Buddha, Mahavira, Patanjali and Osho. And it is the base for the following two 'fast methods'. Without a solid grounding in meditation these approaches are open to mind games that can catch unaware seekers in the illusion of freedom. The first and most important is advaita which gives the rational basis for immediate surrender to What is. Advaita understands that consciousness is all there is and therefore you are already that which you seek. If this is applied as a moment to moment surrender to What is, as a play of consciousness, rapid growth occurs. If it is just believed it is a trap for the spiritual ego to get stuck in. The other fast method is enquiry. This ancient technique was popularised by Ramana Maharshi and his disciple Poonjaji. It is currently being taught by many Poonjaji people in Satsangs. There are several questions that can be asked including: Who am I? Where do I come from? Who is in? and What is aware of now? The whole point of these questions is to turn consciousness back on itself, in silence. Silent awareness is the only real non-verbal answer to any of these enqiries. Any verbal answer is part of the mind and therfore rejected. When experienced meditators use these fast methods, results can be dramatic. Satoris are common. When they are taught as belief systems by unskilled teachers to unaware seekers, they are a hindrance to authentic growth in awareness. For Osho people who are trained in authenticity and meditation these two fast methods are safe and extremely helpful. Give them a try. Love Maitreya -----Izvorno sporocilo----- Od: sentto-15939-3458-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si [sentto-15939-3458-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si ]Namesto Parisi & Watson Poslano: Saturday, December 25, 1999 8:08 AM Za: advaitin Zadeva: Re: White Clouds "Parisi & Watson" <niche >Colette <colette <snip> >So what to do? How to get out of the head? > >Only one thing is possible: don't create any effort to come out, because every effort will be self-suicidal. What can be done then? Simply watch. Be in & watch. Don't try to get out ~ be in & watch. > >And if you can watch, in those moments of watchfulness there will be no head. >Suddenly you will be beyond. Not out ~ beyond. Suddenly you will be hovering beyond yourself. " This quotation corresponds exactly to my own experience, meager as it may be, and indeed what Osho recommends is the only form of meditation from which I have ever gained any sort of lasting insight, not to mention relief from tension and so on. It is just passively gazing in a non-identifying and non-participating way at whatever arises. There is no chosen object of meditation because the act of choosing itself brings the mind back into the process. I understand that it is possible in principle to use the mind to go beyond the mind, but in my case I find that if I give mind any role at all, it tends to take over and choke everything else out. Also while this passive witnessing is going on, it is possible to be aware of the 'I' before which everything passes, in Ramana's sense of self inquiry. I would be fascinated to hear the comments of the more advanced members on various meditation techniques (or lack thereof) and how they relate to so-called one-pointedness and self inquiry. Robert. Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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