Guest guest Posted December 26, 1999 Report Share Posted December 26, 1999 >I would be >interested in any reactions/responses to this. Thanks for posting this ! I have heard about this book before, but having read somewhere that Jung considered yogas of the Indian tradition to be "unfit" for Europeans, I never checked any of his writings about the subject. I do not write as an experienced member, but have some comments, so here goes: >"One must even educate >people, when they have to cross from manipura >to anahata ... >They really >have to learn that their feelings should be >based on facts". >But to cross from anahata to visuddha one >should unlearn all that. One >should even admit that all one's psychical >facts have nothing to do with >material facts. ... My thoughts about this is that this may be general wisdom, not just confined to the experiences of the anahata chakra. >But in the ajna center the psyche gets wings-->here you know you are >nothing but psyche. Yes, pure mind or mind-body. >The ego disappears completely; the psychical >is no longer a content in >us, but we become contents of it. >You are not even >dreaming of doing anything other than what the >force is demanding, and >the force is not demanding it since you are >already doing it--since you >are the force. And the force returns to the >origin, God. This is a good description of the ajna chakra, I believe. Very to the point. Were you thinking about other types of comments ? Comparing the words of Jung with those of more traditional workers ? >Question: Do you think the idea is to >experience those cakras, which >one has gone through, simultaneously? >In such an extended consciousness all the >cakras would be >simultaneously experienced, because it is the >highest state of >consciousness, and it would not be the highest >if it did not include >all the former experiences.'' I agree with this. My thoughts about this is that it does seem the experiences of each chakra is a continuum, that the experiential edges between one chakra and the next is heavily blurred, such as one can in the ajna chakra experience that there are two things, the psyche and the external thing = god, and that in the sahasrara, everything is god. The glimpses of this knowledge, I presume based on personal experience of the chakras, is that knowledge characteristic of each chakra will dawn from the edges of the last, such that the chakras may from a psychological viewpoint be interpreted as one, like concentric rings, starting from a center, the muladhar, going outwards to the most extrenal ring, the sahasrara, where all the other chakras are "dissolved". Best regards, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 1999 Report Share Posted December 27, 1999 Amanda wrote: > > >"One must even educate > >people, when they have to cross from manipura to anahata ... > >They really > >have to learn that their feelings should be based on facts". > > >But to cross from anahata to visuddha one should unlearn all that. One > >should even admit that all one's psychical facts have nothing to do with > >material facts. ... > > My thoughts about this is that this may be > general wisdom, not just confined to the > experiences of the anahata chakra. I concur. I think the chakras and its symbolism are an excellent backdrop to present a continuing progression of wisdom even where you "unlearn" some things. > Were you thinking about other types of comments? Comparing the words of > Jung with those of more traditional workers ? Wasn't looking for anything in particular, just wanted to see what this highly knowledgible group of people thought about the subject. As I've mentioned before, one of my interests is to better understand the connecting points between psychology and spirituality. The more that I truly grasp how this stuff is all connected together, the more readily that I can realize that all of this is THAT. (Or so my theory goes). -Kartik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 1999 Report Share Posted December 27, 1999 Hi. > subbarao > > > Were you thinking about other types of comments? Comparing the words of > > Jung with those of more traditional workers ? > > Wasn't looking for anything in particular, just wanted to see what this > highly knowledgible group of people thought about the subject. As I've > mentioned before, one of my interests is to better understand the connecting > points between psychology and spirituality. The more that I truly grasp > how this stuff is all connected together, the more readily that I can > realize that all of this is THAT. (Or so my theory goes). > > -Kartik I too like connecting psychology with spirit cause it seems to me I became aware I was pure psyche (spirit ranging from nothing, .. to wearing a persona) & not bound to body anymore. More psyche than matter. And so I had a glimpse, & lost my boundaries before learning how to build a healthy ego, with healthy boundaries. I guess it is helping me to accept the boundless with trust, through working with the psyche in ways Jung recommended, like dream work etc & acknowledging we are both masculine & feminine energy. Col asked: I also want to clarify for myself, the difference between a core amness (I Am That) a differentiated witness, and the constructed programmed personality. ------------ Nitin wrote: See how you like this (As much as any such thing can be said in words). The core Amness is the basic screen of Consciousness upon which everything appears. It is upstream of all conceptualization. The differentiated witness is the illusory `me' which is a total illusion. The constructed programmed personality is the phenomenally real (anatomical-physiological) body-mind which acts and reacts in everyday life. The core Amness is the real You (and I), the differentiated witness is what one *thinks* oneself to be, and the c.p.p. is what carries on the lila of daily life in the phenomenal reality All the three = the average person. Remove the (illusion of) the d.w., and you have the sage. Best wishes, Nitin So you think witness is illusion too? I wonder where soul fits into all this? Bye now, Love, Colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 1999 Report Share Posted December 27, 1999 On 12/28/99 at 2:03 AM subbarao wrote: ¤[...] ¤Wasn't looking for anything in particular, just wanted to see what this ¤highly knowledgible group of people thought about the subject. As I've ¤mentioned before, one of my interests is to better understand the connecting ¤points between psychology and spirituality. The more that I truly grasp ¤how this stuff is all connected together, the more readily that I can ¤realize that all of this is THAT. (Or so my theory goes). ¤ ¤ -Kartik The non-existence of a "doer" (the me - meme) was a nice one, fitting in well with spirituality. In a recent article in New Scientist on MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder), a differentiation is made between memory of emotions and memory of events; this is one of the areas where Kundalini can pose temporary problems. The potential to store (emotional) impressions is said to be the cause to "keep the wheel going" so without emotional memory, one is "freed" from the burden of past (emotional) impressions but memory of events remains vivid. This too fits in nicely with spirituality. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 1999 Report Share Posted December 27, 1999 Hi! There is a big gulf between psychology and Spirituality. Psychology is to create a healthy ego for successful survival in this material world. Spirituality is to go beyond the ego and experience the indescribable. -- Vis Colette wrote: > Colette <colette > > Hi. > > > subbarao > > > > > Were you thinking about other types of comments? Comparing the words of > > > Jung with those of more traditional workers ? > > > > Wasn't looking for anything in particular, just wanted to see what this > > highly knowledgible group of people thought about the subject. As I've > > mentioned before, one of my interests is to better understand the connecting > > points between psychology and spirituality. The more that I truly grasp > > how this stuff is all connected together, the more readily that I can > > realize that all of this is THAT. (Or so my theory goes). > > > > -Kartik > > I too like connecting psychology with spirit cause it seems to me I became aware I was pure psyche (spirit ranging from nothing, .. to wearing a persona) & not bound to body anymore. More psyche than matter. > > And so I had a glimpse, & lost my boundaries before learning how to build a healthy ego, with healthy boundaries. I guess it is helping me to accept the boundless with trust, through working with the psyche in ways Jung recommended, like dream work > etc & acknowledging we are both masculine & feminine energy. > > Col asked: > > I also want to clarify for myself, the difference between a core amness (I Am That) a differentiated witness, and the constructed programmed personality. > ------------ > Nitin wrote: > > See how you like this (As much as any such thing can be said in words). > > The core Amness is the basic screen of Consciousness upon which everything appears. It is upstream of all conceptualization. The differentiated witness is the illusory `me' which is a total illusion. The constructed programmed personality is the > phenomenally real (anatomical-physiological) body-mind which acts and reacts in everyday life. > > The core Amness is the real You (and I), the differentiated witness is what one *thinks* oneself to be, and the c.p.p. is what carries on the lila of daily life in the phenomenal reality > > All the three = the average person. > Remove the (illusion of) the d.w., and you have the sage. > > Best wishes, > > Nitin > > So you think witness is illusion too? I wonder where soul fits into all this? > > Bye now, > > Love, > > Colette > > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 1999 Report Share Posted December 27, 1999 R. Viswanathan wrote: > "R. Viswanathan" <rvis > > Hi! > There is a big gulf between psychology and Spirituality. > Psychology is to create a healthy ego for successful survival in this material world. > Spirituality is to go beyond the ego and experience the indescribable. > -- Vis Vis hi. To me there is no seam. The human psyche expands into the infinite Self. It's all one energy unfolding. Psyche is Spirit ~ to me. Best Regards, Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 1999 Report Share Posted December 28, 1999 Carl Gustav Jung was very interested in Indian spirituality. I believe in his earlier works on "Analytical Psychology" he used to explain all spiritual experiences as examples of an "archaetypal syndrome". Example ~~~~~~ This means that each one of us is influenced to a great extent in our child hood by wonderful unexplained things for that age group. One typical example is that as a child we are fascinated by the brilliance of the sun and moon. However at that age group we do not know what they are. This forms an impression in us. This is an archaetypal complex. In later life the mind associates anything wonderful beyond our understanding with the brilliant objects such as the sun. This is an explanation for visions which seers have as mental reactions from deep impressions formed during childhood. However in later years Jung seems to have a high regard for Indian spirituality. He has even written an essay on Sri Ramana Mahrashi and compared him with Sri Ramakrishna. Personally I feel that Kundalini Yoga is more an exercise in Psychology than spirituality though I am sure that many of you are going to disagree. I differentiate spirituality and psychology in this that psychology deals with the conscious and sub-conscious mind. However spirituality includes the super conscious. (The Turiya state). Anand On 28 Dec 1999 02:03:23 -000 subbarao wrote: >subbarao > >Amanda wrote: >> >> >"One must even educate >> >people, when they have to cross from manipura to anahata ... >> >They really >> >have to learn that their feelings should be based on facts". >> >> >But to cross from anahata to visuddha one should unlearn all that. One >> >should even admit that all one's psychical facts have nothing to do with >> >material facts. ... >> >> My thoughts about this is that this may be >> general wisdom, not just confined to the >> experiences of the anahata chakra. > >I concur. I think the chakras and its symbolism are an excellent backdrop to >present a continuing progression of wisdom even where you "unlearn" some >things. > >> Were you thinking about other types of comments? Comparing the words of >> Jung with those of more traditional workers ? > >Wasn't looking for anything in particular, just wanted to see what this >highly knowledgible group of people thought about the subject. As I've >mentioned before, one of my interests is to better understand the connecting >points between psychology and spirituality. The more that I truly grasp >how this stuff is all connected together, the more readily that I can >realize that all of this is THAT. (Or so my theory goes). > > -Kartik > >>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins > > A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 1999 Report Share Posted December 28, 1999 >Nitin wrote: > >The core Amness is the basic screen of Consciousness upon which everything appears. It is upstream of all conceptualization. The differentiated witness is the illusory `me' which is a total illusion. The constructed programmed personality is the >phenomenally real (anatomical-physiological) body-mind which acts and reacts in everyday life. > > >Colette <colette > >So you think witness is illusion too? I wonder where soul fits into all this? I believe Nitin was using the word "witness" differently than it's normally used in Advaita. Rather than the true Subject (Atman), he seems to be referring to the pseudo-subject (personal ego, or feeling of individual doer-ship). Hence his qualified term "differentiated witness". I hate to speak for somebody else - so correct me if I'm wrong, Nitin! W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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