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RE: [NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what?

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Thanks for that Jerry. That is so funny. Will forward this to

and Advaitin.

 

Received this from our own Jerry Katz..................always a fresh breeze

of humor and wit :--).

 

 

Jerry M. Katz [umbada]

Wednesday, January 05, 2000 5:59 AM

NDS

[NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what?

 

Someone do me a favor and go to

 

http://www.vartman.com/soundfiles.html

 

And listen to Vartman on one of the sound files. I listened

for about 5 seconds and had to shut it off. My question is,

Why do all these Satsang people sound the same? The same

pacing. The same pausing. The same eternal tone. The same,

'You see'. The same little humor. The same 'in the moment

importance'.

 

Why do I feel like I'm being sucked into something? Why do I

feel the current Satsang movement is no different than any

religious movement with their intonations and rituals and

fulfillment of expectations?

 

Where is the unpredictability? Where is the rebellion? Why

do I have to turn Vartman off and listen to the hum of my

computer if I want to hear something real?

 

As a boy required to attend synagogue I felt stifled. I felt

more alive and in touch with life when I departed the

synagogue. Somehow I had the insight that just being alone

in the day's sun was as religious and spiritual and Godly as

it gets.

 

Now I have that same feeling with Satsang. It's bullshit.

Just listen to Vartman. You know anyone can say anything

they want with that pacing and tone of voice and it will

sound spiritual and wonderful. Using Vartman's tone, try

saying the following:

 

"I'm going to sue your ass in court ... you see ... you

slimy stinking good for nothing bastard ... you piece of

human garbage, you are the lowest form of human existence

.... you see ... you horrible ..."

 

And don't you hate it when you're reading transcripts of

Satsang and you come upon the clue-in: [laughter]. I hate

that. Just let me read the transcript and I'll decide if

it's funny or not.

 

So what's my point? Nothing holds. Reality is not to be

found in Satsang with all its good feeling and relaxation

and mellowness and truth. Reality is not found. It is known

to be here and now. You see.

 

Jerry

_

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Greetings Harsha:

 

Thanks for sharing the message from Jerry. I was rather surprised to see the

negative tone in his message regarding Satsang and let me explain why I feel

that way:

 

All Satsang conductors do not sound the same and also all Satsang listeners do

not listen the same. Human perceptions vary by person, time and circumstance.

This is a fact of life. The modern majority seems to treat attending a Satsang

equivalent to a recreational activity such as watching TV, listening Radio,

surfing Internet, going to a Movie, a Drama, a Musical concert or a game. With

such a frame of mind, any judgment has potential pitfalls. Whenever we jump

into conclusions, we fail to recognize our shortcomings and quick to blame

others for our failure.

Participation in any Satsang requires dedication, discipline and responsibility

from the audience. The speaker should recognize the need of the audience and in

return, the audience should keep an open mind for listening. One of the main

purpose of participating any Satsang is mind purification. The first step for

the audience toward mind purification is to shred preconceived notions. When

the mind is set in controlled motions, it is quite possible to enjoy the Satsang

under all circumstances. Humor and flashy language are not the necessary

ingredients for a Satsang.

 

Everyday in our life is full of repetition. We wake up, eat, meet, talk,

listen, touch, feel, etc., and sleep. We have also learnt to repeat and live!

 

 

 

===================================================

>Jerry M. Katz [umbada]

>

>And listen to Vartman on one of the sound files. I listened

>for about 5 seconds and had to shut it off. My question is,

>Why do all these Satsang people sound the same? The same

>pacing. The same pausing. The same eternal tone. The same,

>'You see'. The same little humor. The same 'in the moment

>importance'.

>

>Why do I feel like I'm being sucked into something? Why do I

>feel the current Satsang movement is no different than any

>religious movement with their intonations and rituals and

>fulfillment of expectations?

>

>Where is the unpredictability? Where is the rebellion? Why

>do I have to turn Vartman off and listen to the hum of my

>computer if I want to hear something real?

>

>As a boy required to attend synagogue I felt stifled. I felt

>more alive and in touch with life when I departed the

>synagogue. Somehow I had the insight that just being alone

>in the day's sun was as religious and spiritual and Godly as

>it gets.

>

>Now I have that same feeling with Satsang. It's bullshit.

>Just listen to Vartman. You know anyone can say anything

>they want with that pacing and tone of voice and it will

>sound spiritual and wonderful. Using Vartman's tone, try

>saying the following:

>...............................

>So what's my point? Nothing holds. Reality is not to be

>found in Satsang with all its good feeling and relaxation

>and mellowness and truth. Reality is not found. It is known

>to be here and now. You see.

>

>Jerry

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Greetings Rahasya:

 

I do not object humor as such but it is only a mean and not the end! The focus

of the Satsang should be the subject matter and not on humor and rhetoric. I

have seen some Satsang where subject matter is drowned by the humor and

rhetoric. Humor is a useful tool to get the attention of the audience but needs

to be employed without erasing the ultimate goal!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

"firak or rahasya" <sonja.kotar

>But Humor can be and should be a necessary ingredient for Satsang,

>also joyfullness, playfullness, non-seriousness are necessary.

>

>i don't know, what you mean with "flashy" language,

>something like

>BOOOOOOMMMMM, ZZZZAACKKK!

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Greetings Ram,

 

i can go with most of your remarks,

yes, Satsang is cleaning,

cleaning of all the systems,

body, mind,nervous system ....

 

But Humor can be and should be a necessary ingredient for Satsang,

also joyfullness, playfullness, non-seriousness are necessary.

 

i don't know, what you mean with "flashy" language,

something like

BOOOOOOMMMMM, ZZZZAACKKK!

why not?

or do you mean "fleshy" <;)( i mean sexually oriented)

evrybody may make his own example.....

why not again?

 

 

a few minutes ago i listened to Papaji

 

Questioner: What is the need of consciousness?

Papaji: No need.

 

 

aum

firak

 

-----Izvorno sporocilo-----

Od: sentto-15939-3576-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si

[sentto-15939-3576-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si ]Namesto

Ram Chandran

Poslano: Friday, July 10, 2893 3:44 PM

Za: advaitin

Zadeva: Re: RE: [NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what?

 

 

Greetings Harsha:

 

Thanks for sharing the message from Jerry. I was rather surprised to see the

negative tone in his message regarding Satsang and let me explain why I feel

that way:

 

All Satsang conductors do not sound the same and also all Satsang listeners

do not listen the same. Human perceptions vary by person, time and

circumstance. This is a fact of life. The modern majority seems to treat

attending a Satsang equivalent to a recreational activity such as watching

TV, listening Radio, surfing Internet, going to a Movie, a Drama, a Musical

concert or a game. With such a frame of mind, any judgment has potential

pitfalls. Whenever we jump into conclusions, we fail to recognize our

shortcomings and quick to blame others for our failure.

Participation in any Satsang requires dedication, discipline and

responsibility from the audience. The speaker should recognize the need of

the audience and in return, the audience should keep an open mind for

listening. One of the main purpose of participating any Satsang is mind

purification. The first step for the audience toward mind purification is

to shred preconceived notions. When the mind is set in controlled motions,

it is quite possible to enjoy the Satsang under all circumstances. Humor and

flashy language are not the necessary ingredients for a Satsang.

 

Everyday in our life is full of repetition. We wake up, eat, meet, talk,

listen, touch, feel, etc., and sleep. We have also learnt to repeat and

live!

 

 

 

===================================================

>Jerry M. Katz [umbada]

>

>And listen to Vartman on one of the sound files. I listened

>for about 5 seconds and had to shut it off. My question is,

>Why do all these Satsang people sound the same? The same

>pacing. The same pausing. The same eternal tone. The same,

>'You see'. The same little humor. The same 'in the moment

>importance'.

>

>Why do I feel like I'm being sucked into something? Why do I

>feel the current Satsang movement is no different than any

>religious movement with their intonations and rituals and

>fulfillment of expectations?

>

>Where is the unpredictability? Where is the rebellion? Why

>do I have to turn Vartman off and listen to the hum of my

>computer if I want to hear something real?

>

>As a boy required to attend synagogue I felt stifled. I felt

>more alive and in touch with life when I departed the

>synagogue. Somehow I had the insight that just being alone

>in the day's sun was as religious and spiritual and Godly as

>it gets.

>

>Now I have that same feeling with Satsang. It's bullshit.

>Just listen to Vartman. You know anyone can say anything

>they want with that pacing and tone of voice and it will

>sound spiritual and wonderful. Using Vartman's tone, try

>saying the following:

>...............................

>So what's my point? Nothing holds. Reality is not to be

>found in Satsang with all its good feeling and relaxation

>and mellowness and truth. Reality is not found. It is known

>to be here and now. You see.

>

>Jerry

 

 

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focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

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Greetings Ram,

 

yes, of course,

there is Satsang with words and

silent sitting with the master

which is more the original meaning, if i understand right

 

of course a mailing-list is for words,

although there is a list on onelist, even called Satsang,

who seems to be in constant silent meditation.

i'm d and have received nearly only my own echo back in maybe 2

months.

<:)>*

 

 

Amrit firak

 

sorry for the confusion, i'm firak, European, 47, and male,

and it's my wife's Rahasya's e-mail i'm using for more than 3 years now,

because she could get free internet access through an official

education-server.

we run a small private school for German and English in Slovenia.

it's only in the last two months that she started to give me concurrence on

the pc (smile)

and she's sending mails more rarely.

so please don't apologize, Ram

thanks for your contribution to this list.

 

firak

 

-----Izvorno sporocilo-----

Od: sentto-15939-3612-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si

[sentto-15939-3612-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si ]Namesto

Ram Chandran

Poslano: Friday, July 10, 2893 3:44 PM

Za: advaitin

Zadeva: RE: RE: [NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what?

 

 

Greetings Rahasya:

 

I do not object humor as such but it is only a mean and not the end! The

focus of the Satsang should be the subject matter and not on humor and

rhetoric. I have seen some Satsang where subject matter is drowned by the

humor and rhetoric. Humor is a useful tool to get the attention of the

audience but needs to be employed without erasing the ultimate goal!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

"firak or rahasya" <sonja.kotar

>But Humor can be and should be a necessary ingredient for Satsang,

>also joyfullness, playfullness, non-seriousness are necessary.

>

>i don't know, what you mean with "flashy" language,

>something like

>BOOOOOOMMMMM, ZZZZAACKKK!

 

 

--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

 

Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests!

Sign up for eLerts at:

<a href=" http://clickme./ad/elerts1 ">Click Here</a>

 

------

 

Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

Address: advaitins

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