Guest guest Posted January 5, 2000 Report Share Posted January 5, 2000 Thanks for that Jerry. That is so funny. Will forward this to and Advaitin. Received this from our own Jerry Katz..................always a fresh breeze of humor and wit :--). Jerry M. Katz [umbada] Wednesday, January 05, 2000 5:59 AM NDS [NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what? Someone do me a favor and go to http://www.vartman.com/soundfiles.html And listen to Vartman on one of the sound files. I listened for about 5 seconds and had to shut it off. My question is, Why do all these Satsang people sound the same? The same pacing. The same pausing. The same eternal tone. The same, 'You see'. The same little humor. The same 'in the moment importance'. Why do I feel like I'm being sucked into something? Why do I feel the current Satsang movement is no different than any religious movement with their intonations and rituals and fulfillment of expectations? Where is the unpredictability? Where is the rebellion? Why do I have to turn Vartman off and listen to the hum of my computer if I want to hear something real? As a boy required to attend synagogue I felt stifled. I felt more alive and in touch with life when I departed the synagogue. Somehow I had the insight that just being alone in the day's sun was as religious and spiritual and Godly as it gets. Now I have that same feeling with Satsang. It's bullshit. Just listen to Vartman. You know anyone can say anything they want with that pacing and tone of voice and it will sound spiritual and wonderful. Using Vartman's tone, try saying the following: "I'm going to sue your ass in court ... you see ... you slimy stinking good for nothing bastard ... you piece of human garbage, you are the lowest form of human existence .... you see ... you horrible ..." And don't you hate it when you're reading transcripts of Satsang and you come upon the clue-in: [laughter]. I hate that. Just let me read the transcript and I'll decide if it's funny or not. So what's my point? Nothing holds. Reality is not to be found in Satsang with all its good feeling and relaxation and mellowness and truth. Reality is not found. It is known to be here and now. You see. Jerry _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2000 Report Share Posted January 5, 2000 Greetings Harsha: Thanks for sharing the message from Jerry. I was rather surprised to see the negative tone in his message regarding Satsang and let me explain why I feel that way: All Satsang conductors do not sound the same and also all Satsang listeners do not listen the same. Human perceptions vary by person, time and circumstance. This is a fact of life. The modern majority seems to treat attending a Satsang equivalent to a recreational activity such as watching TV, listening Radio, surfing Internet, going to a Movie, a Drama, a Musical concert or a game. With such a frame of mind, any judgment has potential pitfalls. Whenever we jump into conclusions, we fail to recognize our shortcomings and quick to blame others for our failure. Participation in any Satsang requires dedication, discipline and responsibility from the audience. The speaker should recognize the need of the audience and in return, the audience should keep an open mind for listening. One of the main purpose of participating any Satsang is mind purification. The first step for the audience toward mind purification is to shred preconceived notions. When the mind is set in controlled motions, it is quite possible to enjoy the Satsang under all circumstances. Humor and flashy language are not the necessary ingredients for a Satsang. Everyday in our life is full of repetition. We wake up, eat, meet, talk, listen, touch, feel, etc., and sleep. We have also learnt to repeat and live! =================================================== >Jerry M. Katz [umbada] > >And listen to Vartman on one of the sound files. I listened >for about 5 seconds and had to shut it off. My question is, >Why do all these Satsang people sound the same? The same >pacing. The same pausing. The same eternal tone. The same, >'You see'. The same little humor. The same 'in the moment >importance'. > >Why do I feel like I'm being sucked into something? Why do I >feel the current Satsang movement is no different than any >religious movement with their intonations and rituals and >fulfillment of expectations? > >Where is the unpredictability? Where is the rebellion? Why >do I have to turn Vartman off and listen to the hum of my >computer if I want to hear something real? > >As a boy required to attend synagogue I felt stifled. I felt >more alive and in touch with life when I departed the >synagogue. Somehow I had the insight that just being alone >in the day's sun was as religious and spiritual and Godly as >it gets. > >Now I have that same feeling with Satsang. It's bullshit. >Just listen to Vartman. You know anyone can say anything >they want with that pacing and tone of voice and it will >sound spiritual and wonderful. Using Vartman's tone, try >saying the following: >............................... >So what's my point? Nothing holds. Reality is not to be >found in Satsang with all its good feeling and relaxation >and mellowness and truth. Reality is not found. It is known >to be here and now. You see. > >Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2000 Report Share Posted January 6, 2000 Greetings Rahasya: I do not object humor as such but it is only a mean and not the end! The focus of the Satsang should be the subject matter and not on humor and rhetoric. I have seen some Satsang where subject matter is drowned by the humor and rhetoric. Humor is a useful tool to get the attention of the audience but needs to be employed without erasing the ultimate goal! regards, Ram Chandran "firak or rahasya" <sonja.kotar >But Humor can be and should be a necessary ingredient for Satsang, >also joyfullness, playfullness, non-seriousness are necessary. > >i don't know, what you mean with "flashy" language, >something like >BOOOOOOMMMMM, ZZZZAACKKK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2000 Report Share Posted January 6, 2000 Greetings Ram, i can go with most of your remarks, yes, Satsang is cleaning, cleaning of all the systems, body, mind,nervous system .... But Humor can be and should be a necessary ingredient for Satsang, also joyfullness, playfullness, non-seriousness are necessary. i don't know, what you mean with "flashy" language, something like BOOOOOOMMMMM, ZZZZAACKKK! why not? or do you mean "fleshy" <( i mean sexually oriented) evrybody may make his own example..... why not again? a few minutes ago i listened to Papaji Questioner: What is the need of consciousness? Papaji: No need. aum firak -----Izvorno sporocilo----- Od: sentto-15939-3576-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si [sentto-15939-3576-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si ]Namesto Ram Chandran Poslano: Friday, July 10, 2893 3:44 PM Za: advaitin Zadeva: Re: RE: [NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what? Greetings Harsha: Thanks for sharing the message from Jerry. I was rather surprised to see the negative tone in his message regarding Satsang and let me explain why I feel that way: All Satsang conductors do not sound the same and also all Satsang listeners do not listen the same. Human perceptions vary by person, time and circumstance. This is a fact of life. The modern majority seems to treat attending a Satsang equivalent to a recreational activity such as watching TV, listening Radio, surfing Internet, going to a Movie, a Drama, a Musical concert or a game. With such a frame of mind, any judgment has potential pitfalls. Whenever we jump into conclusions, we fail to recognize our shortcomings and quick to blame others for our failure. Participation in any Satsang requires dedication, discipline and responsibility from the audience. The speaker should recognize the need of the audience and in return, the audience should keep an open mind for listening. One of the main purpose of participating any Satsang is mind purification. The first step for the audience toward mind purification is to shred preconceived notions. When the mind is set in controlled motions, it is quite possible to enjoy the Satsang under all circumstances. Humor and flashy language are not the necessary ingredients for a Satsang. Everyday in our life is full of repetition. We wake up, eat, meet, talk, listen, touch, feel, etc., and sleep. We have also learnt to repeat and live! =================================================== >Jerry M. Katz [umbada] > >And listen to Vartman on one of the sound files. I listened >for about 5 seconds and had to shut it off. My question is, >Why do all these Satsang people sound the same? The same >pacing. The same pausing. The same eternal tone. The same, >'You see'. The same little humor. The same 'in the moment >importance'. > >Why do I feel like I'm being sucked into something? Why do I >feel the current Satsang movement is no different than any >religious movement with their intonations and rituals and >fulfillment of expectations? > >Where is the unpredictability? Where is the rebellion? Why >do I have to turn Vartman off and listen to the hum of my >computer if I want to hear something real? > >As a boy required to attend synagogue I felt stifled. I felt >more alive and in touch with life when I departed the >synagogue. Somehow I had the insight that just being alone >in the day's sun was as religious and spiritual and Godly as >it gets. > >Now I have that same feeling with Satsang. It's bullshit. >Just listen to Vartman. You know anyone can say anything >they want with that pacing and tone of voice and it will >sound spiritual and wonderful. Using Vartman's tone, try >saying the following: >............................... >So what's my point? Nothing holds. Reality is not to be >found in Satsang with all its good feeling and relaxation >and mellowness and truth. Reality is not found. It is known >to be here and now. You see. > >Jerry --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: <a href=" http://clickme./ad/elerts1 ">Click Here</a> ------ -- Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins ======================================================================== To UNSUBSCRIBE from this community, send an email to: advaitin- and reply to the confirmation email we send you. ======================================================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2000 Report Share Posted January 7, 2000 Greetings Ram, yes, of course, there is Satsang with words and silent sitting with the master which is more the original meaning, if i understand right of course a mailing-list is for words, although there is a list on onelist, even called Satsang, who seems to be in constant silent meditation. i'm d and have received nearly only my own echo back in maybe 2 months. <>* Amrit firak sorry for the confusion, i'm firak, European, 47, and male, and it's my wife's Rahasya's e-mail i'm using for more than 3 years now, because she could get free internet access through an official education-server. we run a small private school for German and English in Slovenia. it's only in the last two months that she started to give me concurrence on the pc (smile) and she's sending mails more rarely. so please don't apologize, Ram thanks for your contribution to this list. firak -----Izvorno sporocilo----- Od: sentto-15939-3612-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si [sentto-15939-3612-sonja.kotar=guest.arnes.si ]Namesto Ram Chandran Poslano: Friday, July 10, 2893 3:44 PM Za: advaitin Zadeva: RE: RE: [NondualitySalon] Is is phony or what? Greetings Rahasya: I do not object humor as such but it is only a mean and not the end! The focus of the Satsang should be the subject matter and not on humor and rhetoric. I have seen some Satsang where subject matter is drowned by the humor and rhetoric. Humor is a useful tool to get the attention of the audience but needs to be employed without erasing the ultimate goal! regards, Ram Chandran "firak or rahasya" <sonja.kotar >But Humor can be and should be a necessary ingredient for Satsang, >also joyfullness, playfullness, non-seriousness are necessary. > >i don't know, what you mean with "flashy" language, >something like >BOOOOOOMMMMM, ZZZZAACKKK! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: <a href=" http://clickme./ad/elerts1 ">Click Here</a> ------ Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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