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Hello,

 

I've been lurking around this list for a while, a little unsure as to whether I

should seek to become a member, my dilemma being that I love the Bhagavad Gita

but I am not in sympathy with much of the Vedanta. (I find Atman to be a much

more useful idea than Brahman.) Perhaps you'll consider giving me a

probabtionary membership

 

Surely one of the most extraordinary things about the Gita is the

variety of different not to say conflicting interpretations it has spawned;

my own reading of it is informed principally by Spinoza's _Ethics_ (which

promotes an idea of God which in my understanding is quite harmonious

with the Supreme Self of the Gita but is otherwise very difficult to

reconcile with any of the major theistic religions).

 

The ethos of this

list does not put a premium on dissent (a notable exception being a heated

exchange that took place a while back on the subject of desire) but I for one

would like nothing better than to see some real disagreements emerge about how

to read the Gita. Of course I'll keep the peace unless others

feel the same way but in case anybody's interested I would

like to take issue with the following post. It seems quite

clear to me that the theory of human nature promulgated by the Gita (like

Spinoza's) has no room for the notion of free will

so that man is *not* in any absolute sense 'Responsible For His Actions'.

If memory serves the question in the third paragraph below

("Impelled by what Krishna does man commit sin involuntarily,

as though driven by force?") is asked in Chapter 3 and the answer is

that man is so impelled by the guna of rajas. It is made quite clear in

Chapter 3 that *all* of man's actions are determined by the interplay of

the gunas and that only those deluded by ahamkara believe that "I am the doer"

whereas the enlightened person sees that the gunas alone act. Likewise Arjuna

will be impelled to fight by prakriti whether he likes it or not (Chapter 18)

and the slaughter of his enemies is predetermined (Chapter 11).

Whatever the ethical teachings of the Gita are, they are *not* based on

free-will.

 

Patrick

 

 

Message: 11

Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:31:33 -0500

Ram Chandran <chandran (AT) xxxxxxxxx (DOT) xxxx

Gita Message from The Hindu Newspaper

 

Man Responsible For His Actions

 

Ethical values are universal in nature and hence everyone knows

them

instinctively. Even a child, for instance, knows that telling a

lie is wrong.

A thief is not unaware that he is transgressing the law when he

steals or

commits a crime. Then why do people commit wrong deeds with the

certain

knowledge that they are doing them? The Mahabharata portrays

this enigma

through the character of Duryodana who exclaimed when his faults

were

pointed out to him, "I know Dharma; but I am unable to follow

it." This

paradoxical human behaviour has been addressed by every major

religion of the

world. Many of them posit an external force which forces man to

violate

Dharma, to explain this contradiction in human conduct.

 

Some who do not accept an external agency go to the extent of

wondering

whether it is Divine Providence that impells man's to act in a

particular

fashion and conclude that God must be held responsible for man's

actions. If

this is true, then, does man have any control over himself or is

he just a

puppet in the hands of a superior force? It amounts to

questioning

whether man has a free-will at all, i.e., whether he has the

freedom to act

according to his will. Those who to the view that

there is an

external agency become fatalistic believing that they are

controlled by

destiny.

 

In the Bhagavad Gita Arjun raises this doubt to Lord Krishna,

"Impelled by

what Krishna does man commit sin involuntarily, as though driven

by force?"

In answer to this, in the verses that follow, the Lord clarifies

that there

is no such external force controlling man and that he is

ultimately

responsible for his actions.

 

In his lecture, Swami Paramarthananda said that it was man's

ignorance of his

Self (Atman) that was ultimately responsible for his misconduct.

Ignorance

about the spiritual nature of his Self is the root cause of all

man's

worldly problems. Due to this he loses his capacity to

discriminate between

the eternal and the transitory in life. Ignorance of the Self

translates

itself into desire for material pleasures of the world. Anger

results when

one is unable to fulfil one's desires. Desire and anger are thus

powerful

forces capable of destroying man totally. Everyone desires

something or

the other in life; only the object of desire varies from person

to person.

Anger is not postulated as a separate entity in the Bhagavad

Gita, because

it is only the outcome of frustrated desire and hence they are

both the

same.

 

Source: An Article from the Religious Section of The Hindu taken

with

permission: "Copyrights 2000 The Hindu & Tribeca Internet

Initiatives Inc."