FW: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, re:Free-will is not Free!

[Guest guest]

namaste,

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

Greg Goode <goode

advaitin

advaitin , "advaitin" <advaitin >

Re: FW: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent,

re:Free-will is not Free!

Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:56:44 -0500

but I have direct verbal contact

>wth God.

>

 

BEWARE! If this God tells you that existence can be created and destroyed,

there is NO TRUTH in this God.

 

" ajo nityaH sahaashvato.ayaM puraaNaH ...."

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

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[Guest guest]

At 05:24 PM 1/10/00 -0800, firak or rahasya wrote:

>"firak or rahasya" <sonja.kotar

>

>

>

>

>Beloved Greg

>Love

>My comments are in your text+++++

>I am not a logician, but I have direct verbal contact

>wth God.

>And, your logic is flawed.

 

Beloved list and Maitreya and firak,

 

You can't make a logic "mine." There's no ownership, no stake, no

personalization. Logic, and any paradoxes, are also programmed by God,

same as the pogroms, direct verbal contact with God, at-one-ment as God,

and anything else.

>++++God not only knew about Hitler's pogroms,

>He created them and had no reason to prevent

>them, since they were an essential part of the

>story. And He can change the story if He wants to,

>although this rarely happens since He creates it

>perfectly in the first place.

 

No disagreement here.

 

Om!

 

--Greg

[Guest guest]

Beloved Greg

Love

My comments are in your text+++++

I am not a logician, but I have direct verbal contact

wth God.

And, your logic is flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greg Goode <goode

 

At 08:49 PM 1/9/00 -0500, f. maiello wrote:

>> > if God were truly all-knowing, He couldn't be all

>> > powerful, simply because He wouldn't have the

power

>> > to alter the course of what He knew would

eventuate.

>> > thus omnipotence and omniscience are

incompatible.

 

Maitreya wrote:

>> ++++ God is omnipotent and omniscient and

omnippresent.

>> Your logic is flawed.

 

Respectfully agree with Frank here, on the logic. If the

discussion were

about some realm other than logic, the discussion

would go a different way.

But since it's about logic (Maitreya mentions it), then

the rules of logic

are appropriate to this level of discourse.

>From a logical, academic standpoint, let me add that

these 3 attributes of

God (as Saguna Brahman or Ishwara) are widely

known to be logically

incompatible. This doesn't mean that God *doesn't*

have these attributes

-- it is just logically impossible that He *does* have

them. For God to be

God, by definition He must have them. That's why

He's God!! But as for

the logic of this topic, it is discussed in Intro

Philosophy classrooms all

over the Western world. Here's a typical kind of

argument.

 

Definition: God = the supreme being who is

omnipotent,

(He can do anything) and omniscient,

(He knows everything) and omnibenevolent

(He is all-good).

 

Argument:

1. If it rains in Bombay on Februay 25, 2000, then God

knows this.

2. If God knows that it will rain in Bombay on Februay

25, 2000, then *it

will* rain at that place on that date.

3. If it will rain at that place and that date, then God is

incapable of

stopping it from raining at that place and that date.

 

+++This reveals the limitations of logic.

God knows what will happen anytime anywhere

because He programmed it to happen in advance.

And He can overide the program with Divine

intervention. God is omnipotent, omniscient and

omnipresent.

The rest of your logic rests on this flawed

understanding and is equally flawed.

 

4. If God incapable of stopping it from raining at

that place and that

date, then God is not omnipotent.

 

Conclusion

==========

Therefore: If it rains in Bombay on Februay 25, 2000,

then God is not

omnipotent. (and the same argument can be given for

it *not* raining in

Bombay on Feb. 25, 2000.)

 

There is a well-known modern Rabbi who wrote a

book called something like

"Why do Bad Things Happen to Good People," and

one of the ways he

encourages his readers to think about God is that He

is omniscient, but not

omnipotent. In other words, he knew about Hitler's

pogroms but was not

able to prevent them.

 

++++God not only knew about Hitler's pogroms,

He created them and had no reason to prevent

them, since they were an essential part of the

story. And He can change the story if He wants to,

although this rarely happens since He creates it

perfectly in the first place.

 

Love

Maitreya

 

Namaste,

 

--Greg