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Greetings Vijayalakshmi and Ram,

 

Thank you for addressing my questions

concerning free will, Karma and the

Vedanta. I only came to study the

Upanishads and the Gita after I had

already found the spiritual path that

works for me, namely that outlined by

Spinoza's _Ethics_

which can be summed up in the formula

'all things follow from the necessity of

the divine nature' (this means ALL

things without exception). The

staggering imaginative vision of the

Gita has always seemed to me to affirm

this but I freely admit that my reading

is idiosyncratic and that I am entirely

self-taught (and hence probably

misguided on many points).

My reason for joining the list to see

how much common ground there is between

us and although I am quite sure that

there will always be fundamental

differences too this doesn't bother me

in the least.

 

Radhakrishnan does not answer my

question concerning the chariot

metaphor. Can anyone

suggest any other sources?

 

> Here's yet another

question: Arjuna is

> the Lord of the Chariot

and Krishna the

> Charioteer. Did Vyasa

have the chariot

> metaphor of the Katha

Upanishad in the

> back of his mind?

(Considering that one

> of the most famous

verses in Chapter II

> of the Gita is lifted

directly from this

> Upanishad).

>

Regards,

 

Patrick

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Greetings Patrick:

 

Thanks for your reply and your willingness to listen with an open mind. As a

list moderator, I appreciate your cooperation and looking forward to your

comments and questions.

 

Here is my understanding of the metaphor that you described from Katha

Upanishad>

 

Katha Upanishad: Chapter 3

 

SELF as a rider in a chariot (The Witness)

Body is the chariot.

Intellect is the charioteer.

Mind is the brake.

Horses are the senses.

The paths of the chariot are the sense objects.

The destination is Brahman!

 

When the mind is under control, the chariot is under control, the horses can be

directed through the right path to reach the destination. The rider (SELF) just

witnesses the journey of life without any attachment. (Back seat drivers are

also supposed to trust the driver witness - please do not direct the driver when

and how to accelerate, turn and apply the brakes!)

 

Though the chariot, charioteer, the horses and the intellect (Arjun) and the

SELF (Krishna) are present, but the metaphor is not identical to the above

description in Katha Upanishad. In Bhagavad Gita, the intellect was in distress

and the mind was cluttered with illusions. The intellect was looking for

guidance inwards through Atma Vichara to get out of the imaginary misery caused

due to the illusory mind. The conversation between Arjun (intellect) and

Krishna (consciousness) is an illustration of our own daily struggle (war) of

meeting the challenges in our life. When we purify mind and free it from

illusions (ignorance), the intellect gets the guidance from the SELF to enjoy

our life and conduct our duties without misery.

 

Regards,

 

Ram Chandran

Patrick Kenny <pkenny

>

>Greetings Vijayalakshmi and Ram,

>

>Thank you for addressing my questions

>concerning free will, Karma and the

>Vedanta.

>.........

>Radhakrishnan does not answer my

>question concerning the chariot

>metaphor. Can anyone

>suggest any other sources?

>

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Hari Om,

Greetings Patrick, I am glad that you are now able to

know other opinions about karma. This list was created

only to help everybody to understand Vedanta and

Advaita in their own way. Nobody can expect others to

understand and follow a doctrine in the same way as

theirs. Each individual reaches the culminating point

through his own path. Coming to your opinion, I am

very eager to know what you mean by "all things follow

from the necessity of the divine nature". Pls. do

explain. Also, I am not a scholar in Advaita and

Vedanta... I just had the same doubts as you did once

upon a time, and had suggested what I had read so that

you may benefit from it.

Hari Om Tatsat

Viji.

 

--- Patrick Kenny <pkenny wrote:

> Greetings Vijayalakshmi and Ram,

>

> Thank you for addressing my questions

> concerning free will, Karma and the

> Vedanta. I only came to study the

> Upanishads and the Gita after I had

> already found the spiritual path that

> works for me, namely that outlined by

> Spinoza's _Ethics_

> which can be summed up in the formula

> 'all things follow from the necessity of

> the divine nature' (this means ALL

> things without exception). The

> staggering imaginative vision of the

> Gita has always seemed to me to affirm

> this but I freely admit that my reading

> is idiosyncratic and that I am entirely

> self-taught (and hence probably

> misguided on many points).

> My reason for joining the list to see

> how much common ground there is between

> us and although I am quite sure that

> there will always be fundamental

> differences too this doesn't bother me

> in the least.

>

> Radhakrishnan does not answer my

> question concerning the chariot

> metaphor. Can anyone

> suggest any other sources?

>

>

> > Here's yet another

> question: Arjuna is

> > the Lord of the Chariot

> and Krishna the

> > Charioteer. Did Vyasa

> have the chariot

> > metaphor of the Katha

> Upanishad in the

> > back of his mind?

> (Considering that one

> > of the most famous

> verses in Chapter II

> > of the Gita is lifted

> directly from this

> > Upanishad).

> >

> Regards,

>

> Patrick

>

 

 

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