Guest guest Posted January 16, 2000 Report Share Posted January 16, 2000 That is quite an impertinent act. One should not brag or display one's calibre in front of saints. Possibly you do not believe in Sri Sathya Sai Baba and hence this comment. However I do not consider this Krishna Murthy's act very amusing. It speaks only of arrogance. Regards, Anand >There is one Krishna Murthy who does kalabhairava upasana and >he performs miracles graciously :-) One day, he encountered Bhagawan Sri >Satya Saibaba of puttaparti who was on his visit to Guntur. While >satyasaibaba was giving out vibhuti to his disciples, Krishna Murthy started >distributing Tirupati Laddus (which are quite big to even conceal) by >bringing them out of thin air. A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2000 Report Share Posted January 16, 2000 Anand Natarajan wrote: > "Anand Natarajan" <anandn > > That is quite an impertinent act. One should not brag or display one's calibre in front of saints. Possibly you do not believe in Sri Sathya Sai Baba and hence this comment. However I do not consider this Krishna Murthy's act very amusing. It speaks only of arrogance. > > Regards, > Anand Namaste Anandji! Sri Ramana has pointed out that there is only one True Siddhi and that is the Siddhi of Self-Realization. This essential truth needs to be kept in mind, otherwise one will be impressed with every magic trick that happens to pass one's way. In any case, how can we say that it is all right to produce vibhuti and give that out to devotees but it is not okay to produce laddus which are quite enjoyable to eat? Surely, if one is okay, then the other is all right as well. The preference of some devotees for laddus should be taken into account. Certainly a range of explanations is possible. When one strays from the Self, then what can one offer but explanations! This life is a great ride with all its joys and sorrows and music and laughter. We can see a particular act as a miracle and get caught up in that or we can immerse in the Self as the Self and see the Totality of Life as That Miracle Only. Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2000 Report Share Posted January 16, 2000 This is the second apology I am sending on this list in just two days! Dear Anand, I think I did not convey it properly. On the contrary, even now I am one of the speakers at SSHV local chapter(sai satsang). I visited baba four times, and each time - that I did visit baba at Puttaparti - I got a personal interview from him. Actually he sent somebody to pull me out of the crowd and called me in! I believed this as a miracle. (the last time that I had his darshan was 8 year back). I respect him. Baba always says that you have to go beoynd miracles. Krishna Murthy's intention (later he explained) was to say that these miracles even ordinary siddhas can perform, where as the higher teaching and realisation (advaita) which Baba has been advocating is not that easy to achieve. Do not look at Baba as just a person who does miracles, those who deserve he can perform some thing higher than that! Like you, Baba's devotees were also very much upset with this display of KM, later Baba himself acknowledged that it is his own will which made Murthy to perform that! My apologies once again. Regards, Madhava At 10:48 AM 1/16/00 -0800, you wrote: >"Anand Natarajan" <anandn > > >That is quite an impertinent act. One should not brag or display one's calibre in front of saints. Possibly you do not believe in Sri Sathya Sai Baba and hence this comment. However I do not consider this Krishna Murthy's act very amusing. It speaks only of arrogance. > >Regards, > Anand > > >>There is one Krishna Murthy who does kalabhairava upasana and >>he performs miracles graciously :-) One day, he encountered Bhagawan Sri >>Satya Saibaba of puttaparti who was on his visit to Guntur. While >>satyasaibaba was giving out vibhuti to his disciples, Krishna Murthy started >>distributing Tirupati Laddus (which are quite big to even conceal) by >>bringing them out of thin air. > > >A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. >Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > <a href=" http://clickme./ad/gator4 ">Click Here</a> > >------ > >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email Address: advaitins > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2000 Report Share Posted January 16, 2000 Greetings Harshaji: Namaskar, Those who have attained higher levels spiritual maturity will fully understand and appreciate what you have stated in your posting. However, Indian population is quite diverse in their religious practices, beliefs and understanding. Vibhuti (ash from fire) and laddu (sweet delcious food) are produced for different reasons. Vibhuti symbolically reminds that the human body is not permanent and is nothing but ashes (cremation is the common practice). Ashes coming out of sacred fire is the prasad from Brahman and vibhuti is not for filling the belly but for purifying the heart. Ashes also symbolically represents the presence of Divinity and for Shiva worshipers, applying the vibhuti on the forhead brings peace. There is no yardstick by which we can intellectually measure spiritual maturity of a human being. However, when a spiritual person is present, he/she brings peace and happiness to people around that person. Those who met Ramana felt that they experienced peace in their heart. The millions of people who see Satya Sai Baba also feel the same way. In addition, Satya Sai Baba is responsible for thousands of small volunteer organizations all over the world where the members participate in community service such as feeding the poor, helping mutually each other, conduct satsang, conduct study classes for children and adults, and others. Many hospitals, schools, colleges and social service and welfare organizations have been conducted by the volunteers of Satya Sai Baba Seva Mandals. Satya Sai Baba does perform some miracles and it seems that the purpose of the miracles is to motivate the volunteers to keep 'faith.' From our point of view, it may appear unnecessary, how can we be sure that our intellectual yard stick has the capacity to measure and judge spirituality. Madhavaji did not tell about the goal of the person who produced sweet and delicious laddus for those who assembled. If the goal is to persuade the volunteers of Satya Sai Baba Seva Mandals to stop their community service then such a miracle is not spiritual. regards, Ram Chandran "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" wrote: > > Sri Ramana has pointed out that there is only one True Siddhi and that is the Siddhi > of Self-Realization. This essential truth needs to be kept in mind, otherwise one will > be impressed with every magic trick that happens to pass one's way. > > In any case, how can we say that it is all right to produce vibhuti and give that out > to devotees but it is not okay to produce laddus which are quite enjoyable to eat? > Surely, if one is okay, then the other is all right as well. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2000 Report Share Posted January 16, 2000 Dear Anurag, There is a society called tantra vijnana parishad in Guntur, AP (incidentally my home town), the members of whom are very well known tantriks and who keep experementing on Tantra. Performing miracles is not a big deal for some of them (My uncle Venkat Rao, Prof. Kulapati, Prof. Murthy and others). There is one Krishna Murthy who does kalabhairava upasana and he performs miracles graciously :-) One day, he encountered Bhagawan Sri Satya Saibaba of puttaparti who was on his visit to Guntur. While satyasaibaba was giving out vibhuti to his disciples, Krishna Murthy started distributing Tirupati Laddus (which are quite big to even conceal) by bringing them out of thin air. It was not an aggressive act but a funny incident, and I don't know why it took place at all! Six days back I was in Guntur, I was there just for two hours, visiting my parents who are on their pilgrimage to Lord Ayyappa. I came across Krishna Murthy and chatted with him for ten minutes. Your posting on Tantra reminded me of Krishna Murthy, hence this posting. Here is what I understand about mantra and tantra: Every mantra will have a Seer. A seer who can see the God/Goddess who is the adhisthAna devata for that mantra. These Seers give us the mantras which we chant regularly. But how do we know whether that Mantra is really working or not! For example, when we perform any yajna we say "agnimAvAhayAmi" means "I invite the Fire God" and light the fire! But how are we sure whether the Fire God is really arrived or not! As a rule, with out seeing the God one should not offer the havis, for any such thing is considered tantamount to insulting the demi-gods. And any person who does such act will get a sin called "abhikrama nASa" which is described in Bhagawad Gita: "nEhAbhikrama nASOsti pratyavAyO navidyatE svalpamapysya dharmasya trAyatE mahatO bhayAt" That is why the use of Mantra is advised strictly from Guru to the disciple. That too the guru should be in a position to witness the adhistAnadevata (the owner Goddess of the mantra). Any such guru is also called as "purascaraNa siddha". There is a story in Rigveda where a seer stops the on going yagna. He questions the performer saying "you are offering havis to Fire God, but tell me do you see him?", the performer agrees that he couldn't see the FireGod. And the King who is listening to their conversation, prays this Seer to perform the yagna. The Seer accepts the invitation and performs the yagna. Everybody who was present at the yajna was able to see each God and Goddess personified to accept their havis. Tantra paves an easier way to get the effect of mantra. Since Agni is said to have one hundred and twenty three servants, tantra tries to please them all, by offering separate seats and separate havis to everybody. How ever, this should be performed quite carefully, other wise there is this after effect sin called "pratyavAya" (refer Bh.G) in tantra. The effect a mantra can get can also be achieved by tantra. How ever, tantrik process is quite elaborate. A seer only can see the mantra and offer the prayers to the God/Goddess directly. A practitioner can perform tantra, though he can't see the God/Goddess with his own eyes. Effect is the same but the process is elaborate. Regards, Madhava - Anurag Goel <anurag <Ramakrishna > Thursday, January 13, 2000 2:04 AM [ramakrishna] Abt Tantra - Part I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2000 Report Share Posted January 16, 2000 Ram Chandran wrote: > Ram Chandran <chandran > > Greetings Harshaji: > > Namaskar, > > Those who have attained higher levels spiritual maturity will fully understand > and appreciate what you have stated in your posting. However, Indian > population is quite diverse in their religious practices, beliefs and > understanding. > > Vibhuti (ash from fire) and laddu (sweet delcious food) are produced for > different reasons. Vibhuti symbolically reminds that the human body is not > permanent and is nothing but ashes (cremation is the common practice). Ashes > coming out of sacred fire is the prasad from Brahman and vibhuti is not for > filling the belly but for purifying the heart. Ashes also symbolically > represents the presence of Divinity and for Shiva worshipers, applying the > vibhuti on the forhead brings peace. > > There is no yardstick by which we can intellectually measure spiritual > maturity of a human being. However, when a spiritual person is present, he/she > brings peace and happiness to people around that person. Those who met Ramana > felt that they experienced peace in their heart. The millions of people who > see Satya Sai Baba also feel the same way. In addition, Satya Sai Baba is > responsible for thousands of small volunteer organizations all over the world > where the members participate in community service such as feeding the poor, > helping mutually each other, conduct satsang, conduct study classes for > children and adults, and others. Many hospitals, schools, colleges and social > service and welfare organizations have been conducted by the volunteers of > Satya Sai Baba Seva Mandals. Satya Sai Baba does perform some miracles and it > seems that the purpose of the miracles is to motivate the volunteers to keep > 'faith.' From our point of view, it may appear unnecessary, how can we be > sure that our intellectual yard stick has the capacity to measure and judge > spirituality. > > Madhavaji did not tell about the goal of the person who produced sweet and > delicious laddus for those who assembled. If the goal is to persuade the > volunteers of Satya Sai Baba Seva Mandals to stop their community service then > such a miracle is not spiritual. > > regards, > > Ram Chandran > Dearest Ramji. Greetings and Namaste. I enjoyed Madhavaji's story and the implication of it as well. I agree with everything that you said and it makes sense to me. Thank you for clarifying the symbolism of vibhuti. You are quite right that we should respect the diversity of faiths in India and in fact all over the world. The Advaitic perspective is given by the Great Sage of Arunachala and other Saints as well. Sri Ramana has said that the only Siddhi worth aspiring for is Self-Realization and all else is transient. This is simply a statement of the Essential Truth and is not meant to discourage community service of various types in any organizations or generate controversy. Bhagwan Krishna has said in the Bhagwad Gita that the Sage looks at all with an equal eye. My understanding is that this must also be true with respect to miracles as well. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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