Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 I beg to differ with Jan In Nirvikalpa samadhi if there is even the concept of "awareness", it is no longer Nirvikalpa. "Beyond any such definition or classification" is the nearest we can get to....... ...............regards jay Vivekananda Centre London Jan Barendrecht Nirvikalpa samadhi and deep, dreamless sleep have in common that there are no thoughts, no sense-experiences. The difference is that in nirvikalpa samadhi, only awareness is whereas in deep dreamless sleep the awareness is veiled. It is possible for all veils to dissolve, or to be awake independent of the vicissitudes of mind-body. In practice this means the mind-body has undergone adaptations as not to veil awareness in any way. The label "adaptations" can be exchanged with transformation or transfiguration but it refers to the same. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda I beg to differ with Jan In Nirvikalpa samadhi if there is even the concept of "awareness", it is no longer Nirvikalpa. "Beyond any such definition or classification" is the nearest we can get to....... ..............regards jay Vivekananda Centre London Hello and Namaste Jayji! Jan did not say that in Nirvikalpa there is the concept of awareness. He said there is Only Awareness! You are quite right that in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, there are no concepts what so ever at all. It is beyond imagination, thought, or doubt as the mind itself is absorbed in the Self. It is a yogic samadhi (usually) experienced after protracted period of sadhana. When sages speak of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, they speak directly from experience. Their modes of expression may differ due to the nature of the mind and language. Self Is What It Is! It is indeed beyond all concepts. The meaning of Sat-Chit-Ananda is fully understood in Nirvikalpa as Self Is It Self Sat-Chit-Ananda! All of these things are explained and indicated through the mind only, using concepts. But the explanations and indications are just that. They are indications. To gain knowledge of the Self, indications of the sages are very helpful. Nirvikalpa or the Experience of Self is beyond all expressions and indications. Jan Barendrecht Nirvikalpa samadhi and deep, dreamless sleep have in common that there are no thoughts, no sense-experiences. The difference is that in nirvikalpa samadhi, only awareness is whereas in deep dreamless sleep the awareness is veiled. It is possible for all veils to dissolve, or to be awake independent of the vicissitudes of mind-body. In practice this means the mind-body has undergone adaptations as not to veil awareness in any way. The label "adaptations" can be exchanged with transformation or transfiguration but it refers to the same. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 In a message dated 1/19/00 9:41:34 PM EST, anandn writes: << Sri Ramana Maharshi talks of Kevala Nirvikalpa and Sahaja samadhis. Kevala Nirvikalpa samadhi is like a bucket with a rope tied to it and dipped in water. The bucket is imersed in water , but it can be pulled out any time. Even so , the mind is immersed in the super conscious , but the vasanas will bring it back to the world. Sahaja Samadhi is like a river emptying into the ocean. The river water cannot be distinguished from the ocean. Therefore the mind is firmly in the super conscious state. This is the nirbija samadhi of the patanjali yoga shastras and Vijnana state of Sri Ramakrishna. Anand >> I accidently found this on the internet while searching for something else, and was wondering what type of Nirvikalpa Samadhi it was referring to and if anyone had any knowlege of this. >>once an ordinary person >>achieves Nirvikalpa Samadhi, he leaves the body in 21 days.<< >>In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, on page 245, it says, "'Trailanga Swami once said that because a man reasons he is conscious of multiplicity, of variety. Attaining samadhi, one gives up the body in twenty-one days. . . '" (Ramakrishna was talking to his devotees.)<< <> Namaste, Gasusima Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 On 1/19/00 at 6:39 PM Vivekananda Centre wrote: ¤ ¤I beg to differ with Jan ¤ ¤In Nirvikalpa samadhi if there is even the concept of "awareness", ¤it is no longer Nirvikalpa. "Beyond any such definition or classification" ¤is the nearest we can get to....... ¤ ¤.............regards jay ¤Vivekananda Centre London ¤ Nowhere did I write there is the concept of awareness in nirvikalpa samadhi. "Definitions" like "Beyond any such definition or classification" are of no use as all words are concepts and the word "Brahman" is used in many a scripture despite the fact that Brahman is beyond definition. If scriptures could only be understood/recognized by the +knowers+ of Brahman, there wouldn't be a need for scriptures. Western literature has quite a number of works that can only be recognized by "liberated ones" or practitioners having received the proper initiation; from a worldly perspective the stories are just fairy tales. No one knows the value of the square root of -1 but modern technology would be nonexistent if the value was defined as "beyond any knowable value". Jan Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2000 Report Share Posted January 19, 2000 Sri Ramana Maharshi talks of Kevala Nirvikalpa and Sahaja samadhis. Kevala Nirvikalpa samadhi is like a bucket with a rope tied to it and dipped in water. The bucket is imersed in water , but it can be pulled out any time. Even so , the mind is immersed in the super conscious , but the vasanas will bring it back to the world. Sahaja Samadhi is like a river emptying into the ocean. The river water cannot be distinguished from the ocean. Therefore the mind is firmly in the super conscious state. This is the nirbija samadhi of the patanjali yoga shastras and Vijnana state of Sri Ramakrishna. Anand A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2000 Report Share Posted January 20, 2000 Namaste, This discussion reminds me of a story of two birds debating when the snake will be discarding its slough!! Here is a sample of Swami Vivekananda's sadhana: ananta <sarada It took me thirty years to learn it; thirty years of hard struggle. Sometimes I worked at it twenty hours during the twenty-four; sometimes I slept only one hour in the night; sometimes I worked whole nights; sometimes I lived in places where there was hardly a sound, hardly a breath; sometimes I had to live in caves. Think of that. And yet I know little or nothing; I have barely touched the hem of the garment of this science. But I can understand that it is true and vast and wonderful. Regards, S. ----Original Message Follows---- Gasusima advaitin advaitin Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:39:03 EST In a message dated 1/19/00 9:41:34 PM EST, anandn writes: << Sri Ramana Maharshi talks of Kevala Nirvikalpa and Sahaja samadhis. Kevala Nirvikalpa samadhi is like a bucket with a rope tied to it and dipped in water. The bucket is imersed in water , but it can be pulled out any time. Even so , the mind is immersed in the super conscious , but the vasanas will bring it back to the world. Sahaja Samadhi is like a river emptying into the ocean. The river water cannot be distinguished from the ocean. Therefore the mind is firmly in the super conscious state. This is the nirbija samadhi of the patanjali yoga shastras and Vijnana state of Sri Ramakrishna. Anand >> I accidently found this on the internet while searching for something else, and was wondering what type of Nirvikalpa Samadhi it was referring to and if anyone had any knowlege of this. >>once an ordinary person >>achieves Nirvikalpa Samadhi, he leaves the body in 21 days.<< >>In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, on page 245, it says, "'Trailanga Swami once said that because a man reasons he is conscious of multiplicity, of variety. Attaining samadhi, one gives up the body in twenty-one days. . . '" (Ramakrishna was talking to his devotees.)<< <> Namaste, Gasusima ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2000 Report Share Posted January 20, 2000 For that matter ANY spiritual discussions amongst non-enlightened persons amounts to the same. Thats why I write Sri Ramana says this or Sri Ramakrishna says this. I did'nt say I am saying it. Even "M" Master Mahashaya who wrote the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna used to say, I live besides the ocean (meaning Sri Ramakrishna) , so I collect a pitcher of water and give it to whoever comes. It is my understanding that the Vijnana that Sri Ramakrishna talks of is the same as the Sahaja Samadhi that Sri Ramana Maharshi talks of. For this stage, Sri Ramakrishna does'nt quantify it as limiting for 21 days. Interestingly, someone once asked Sri Ramana Maharshi that Sri Ramakrishna had said that one cannot stay in samadhi for longer than 21 days and be in the body. Was this true ? Sri Ramana dismissed the question by saying "He (meaning Sri Ramakrishna) Himself had stayed in it for 6 months at a stretch". Anand On Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:41:34 Sunder Hattangadi wrote: > This discussion reminds me of a story of two birds debating when the >snake will be discarding its slough!! A FREE web-based e-mail service brought to you by the PC World Technology Network. Get your FREE account today at http://www.myworldmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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