question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

[Guest guest]

>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>

>OM! PREM!

>=== =====

>

>HELP!

>=====

>

>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience that

could the Man have some?

>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

>

>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

>

>Thank you for advance!

>

>Peace to you -

>

>Naren

[Guest guest]

Is this the situation?: Someone who has disciples is asking for advice

from an e-mail list about a question on the existence of the universe?

 

OM!

 

--Greg

>>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

>>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

>>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>>HELP!

>>=====

>>

>>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience that

>could the Man have some?

>>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

>>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

>>

>>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

[Guest guest]

Dear Madhavaji,

 

Thank you for your help! My English is so bad! Sorry!

Your answer corresponds to mine. However, the question is more complex.

The pupil wants to compare the points of seeing Hindus and Buddhists,

facing the "scientific realities" of the modern western Science, as well as

facing the linear conception of time who dragged the conception of Creative

God Judeo-Christian.

 

What says the Brahma-Sutras and the Panca Dasi about it?

 

Maybe, the question is badly translated in English. Sorry!

 

And big Thanks for your Help!

 

God bless you!

 

Naren

 

====================================

 

At 10:54 26/01/00 -0800, you wrote:

>"Madhava K Turumella" <madhava

>

>-

>Greg Goode <goode

>>

>> Is this the situation?: Someone who has disciples is asking for advice

>> from an e-mail list about a question on the existence of the universe?

>>

>pranAms Gregji:

>

>Just a quick note before I log-off again...

>

>As mentioned by himself long back, you have to excuse Sri Naren for his

>english....

>

>What I see in his message is that: Naren would like to discuss with others

>about the existence of the universe. He might have already got an answer,

>and he might have told his disciple the answer he knew! How ever, he might

>be interested in knowing other points of view on this creation.

>

>Naren: I congratulate you for your openness and your will to discuss

>points. Please feel free to do so even in future. Now answering your

>questions:

>

>Your question: What are you thinking about this question: (perhaps, you want

>to know the answer!)

>Ans: NO. The universe does not exist outside the consciousness. (I am

>sure on this)

>

>Your question: Who does reply to it?

>Ans: YOU. Because you are questioned.... Now, I replied because I am

>questioned. Everyone can feel replying because everyone is questioned.

>When the thought arises in the ocean of consciousness as a question, it

>creates ripples in the same ocean. You seem to see different circles

>running fast towards the opposite direction from the center. But the origin

>is the same. And the ocean is the same. Who can answer whom when, in

>reality, that alone exists!

>

>I remain yours,

>Madhava

>

>> >>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>> >>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

>> >>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

>> >>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>>

>> >>HELP!

>> >>=====

>> >>

>> >>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience

>that

>> >could the Man have some?

>> >>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

>> >>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

>> >>

>> >>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

>>

>

>

>

>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.

><a href=" http://clickme./ad/Productopia ">Click Here</a>

>

>------

>

>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

Address: advaitins

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 10:54 AM 1/26/00 -0800, Madhava K Turumella wrote:

>"Madhava K Turumella" <madhava

>

>-

>Greg Goode <goode

>>

>> Is this the situation?: Someone who has disciples is asking for advice

>> from an e-mail list about a question on the existence of the universe?

>>

>pranAms Gregji:

>

>Just a quick note before I log-off again...

>

>As mentioned by himself long back, you have to excuse Sri Naren for his

>english....

>

>What I see in his message is that: Naren would like to discuss with others

>about the existence of the universe. He might have already got an answer,

>and he might have told his disciple the answer he knew! How ever, he might

>be interested in knowing other points of view on this creation.

 

Thank you Madhava,

 

For that clarification. Sri Naren. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This

certainly is the place to discuss these issues! Everyone here probably

agrees that nothing exists outside of consciousness, whether a grain of

sand or the entire universe. And consciousness, understood this way, is

*not* something that is the product or the epiphenomenon of biological or

physical processes.

 

As for creation, there are three main theories discussed in advaita. Like

Madhava, I must dash off at this point now too. I'm sure the learned

members of this forum will offer insights on these questions.

 

Wishing you well.

 

Om!

 

--Greg

>

>Naren: I congratulate you for your openness and your will to discuss

>points. Please feel free to do so even in future. Now answering your

>questions:

>

>Your question: What are you thinking about this question: (perhaps, you want

>to know the answer!)

>Ans: NO. The universe does not exist outside the consciousness. (I am

>sure on this)

>

>Your question: Who does reply to it?

>Ans: YOU. Because you are questioned.... Now, I replied because I am

>questioned. Everyone can feel replying because everyone is questioned.

>When the thought arises in the ocean of consciousness as a question, it

>creates ripples in the same ocean. You seem to see different circles

>running fast towards the opposite direction from the center. But the origin

>is the same. And the ocean is the same. Who can answer whom when, in

>reality, that alone exists!

>

>I remain yours,

>Madhava

>

>> >>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>> >>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

>> >>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

>> >>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>>

>> >>HELP!

>> >>=====

>> >>

>> >>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience

>that

>> >could the Man have some?

>> >>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

>> >>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

>> >>

>> >>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

>>

>

>

>

>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.

><a href=" http://clickme./ad/Productopia ">Click Here</a>

>

>------

>

>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

Address: advaitins

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings Claude:

 

I agree that the question that you have raised is quite complex and we have to

find the answer within through ‘atmavichara.' I believe we can find trace of

answer to this question in Bhagavad Gita. Many western and eastern scholars

agree that the messages in Gita is acceptable and confirm to almost all

religious thoughts in one way or other. We should be fully aware that the

purpose of the scholarly analysis conducted below by Prof. Pandurang is just

to help us to focus our search for the Truth. If we take time to read and

understand the message of Gita faithfully and carefully, then we can learn to

get out of the tunnel of darkness to light!

 

This may again explain the importance and relevance of Gita Satsang. The

answers to many complex questions are available in Gita but we need the

patience to dig and find the treasure!

 

Ram Chandran

 

====================================================

The Nature of Supreme God: (Gita Concept of God ) by Prof. K.T. Pandurang

Bangalore, Former Prof. of Sanskrit, Bangalore University. Upakulapati,

poornaprajna Vidyapeetha.)

Source: Bhagavadgita - Multimedia CD

====================================================

To pursue karma jnana and bhakti in a right way, a right knowledge of the God

is essential. Therefore, throughout Gita the nature of the supreme God is

explained. It will be an interesting study to collect the important

observations about God in Gita and formulate the Gita concept of God:

1. God is indestructible and all pervasive (II-17)

2. He is avyakta and achintya that is to say he is invisible and he has unique

power ( II - 25 )

3. He is the cause of the creation and the destruction of the entire universe.

(VII-6)

4. He is supreme and all others are entirely dependent upon him (VII-7).

5. He is omniscient, beginning less, Subtle, Sustainer of all, and beyond

death or destruction (VIII-9)

6. All are supported by him, he is every where, he is supreme and he can be

realized only by devotion (VIII-22)

7. He is all pervasive but he is invisible. All are located in him but he is

not located in any. (IX-4)

8. He creates things taking jadaprakrti or primordial matter as the material

cause. The primordial matter is entirely under his control and all created

things are also entirely under his control. The jadaprakrti is evolved into

mahat etc., directed and supervised by him. (IX-8,10)

9. He is the father, mother and the sustainer of the universe. He is the

highest object to be known. He is conveyed by Om' Rk, Yajus and sama vedas. He

is the lord of all. He witnesses everything. He is the abode of all. He

creates and destroys. Every thing enters into him during pralaya. He is the

cause of all. He does not undergo any modification. (IX 17,18)

10. He is impartial to all. He has no hatred or liking (IX-29)

11. He is the cause of all and he regulates all.(X-8)

12. He has Vibhuti forms in all categories of things. All the things that have

excellence have especially his presence (X-22 to 41)

13. His Visvarupa contains everything that is in the universe (X-

6,7,13,15,16,18,19,20)

14. He is the destroyer of all. When something is destroyed it is destroyed by

God and the human or other agency is only an instrument of God (XI 32,33)

15. He is called Vayu, Yama, Prajapati etc. by all names (XI-39)

16. He is supreme. No one else is equal or superior to him (XI-43)

17. He is Ksetrajna (XIII-3) 18. He is not caused. He has no body etc. that

are caused. He is parabrahman. He is distinct from sat and asat, that is to

say, he is distinct from Vyakta and Avyakta, distinct from murta and amurta

(XIII-13).

19. His hand & feet function through all other limbs, his eyes head and face

function through all other limbs, his ear functions through all his limbs. His

functioning is unique (XIII-I4)

20. He knows all senses and their objects. He enables others to know through

their senses. He has no prakrta senses. He has aprakrta senses that are not

different from him. He has no sin or religious merit. He enjoys all. He has no

Prakrta gunas. He has ananda etc. aprakrta gunas. He is within all beings and

outside all beings. He does not undergo any change. He moves everywhere. He is

subtle and therefore, cannot be comprehended through the senses. As be is all

pervasive, he is far and near. He is present in all beings distinctly but

still he is one. He creates, sustains and destroys the beings. He provides

lumination to the lumi- naries. He is beyond the tamas i.e. Prakriti. He is of

the nature of consciousness and has self awareness. The aparoksajnanins know

him. He is present at the heart of all. (XIII-14 to 18)

21. He is present in the bodies of all as Vaisvanara and digests the food

taken by the living beings. (XV-14)

22. He is present at the heart of all. He causes the understanding, memory and

illusions. He is conveyed by the entire veda. He has written Brahmasutras. He

only knows the purport of the Vedas fully (XV-14,15)

23. He is Uttama Purusa. He is Paramatma, He is higher than both Ksara and

Aksara. He enters and regulates the three worlds. (XV 16-18)

24. He is designated as om' tat' and `sat'. `Om' means he is present in the

whole world as regulator, the whole world is supported by him, and he is

gunapurna, `tat' means he 'is conveyed by Vedas only, `sat' means he has no

defects and is full of auspicious attributes (XV-23). The above observations

in Gita give a complete picture of the Gita concept of God.

 

Generally to elucidate the concept of God three grounds are utilized Viz.

i) Ontological

ii) Epistemological

iii) Theological.

 

In the above description of God we will find these three grounds duly

explored. Ontologically he is the supreme reality. He is completely

independent. He is infinite. He is the cause of creation, sustenance etc. all

the events in the universe. He is omniscient, omnipresent, He is imminent and

transcendent. He is the regulator of all. He possesses infinite number of

attributes. He is absolutely free from the defects. Epistemologicaly he is

conveyed by Veda the Apauruseya and Svatahpramana authority. He also reveals

himself to aparoksajnanins. He cannot be fully comprehended as he is infinite.

But he is not unknowable. He cannot be fully described but he is not

undefinable. Theologically he is the supreme god. He bestows his grace on his

devotees. He has no partiality or cruelty. His grace could be obtained through

bhakti. He is the supreme governor of the entire universe. Every thing takes

place as per his will.

 

A special aspect of the Gita concept of God is the aspect of avatara or

incarnation. Sri krsna clearly declares that he takes incarnations by his own

will. He further informs that whenever dharma is on the decline he takes

incarnations to revive dharma and to ward off adharma (IV 6. 7). While stating

this he makes one point clear viz. his incarnation forms are neither different

from his original form nor inferior to it. These are only manifestations. His

nature of being unborn or unchanged is not affected by it. He warns that to

take his incarnations as human forms is unwise and irreligious. Therefore, the

idea of some commentators that his incarnations are inferior saguna forms and

his nirguna nature is highest is not correct. He is gunapurna in his original

form as well as incarnations. The idea that God or Brahman is nirguna is

nowhere to be found in Gita. The expressions nirguna, gunatita etc. refer to

the fact of God being free from the prakrtagunas viz. Satva, rajas, and tamas.

This is clear from the statement `nirgunam guna bhoktr cha'. He is free from

prakrtaguna but possesses aprakrta gunas such as a nanda. In almost all

references to God, Krishna clearly describes himself as God and brings out the

supremacy of God. Therefore, it is not correct to say that krsna represents

only Saguna Brahma stage and nirguna brahman is above him. The idea of two

levels of Brahman is not at all found in Gita. We may note the passages like

`mattah parataram nasti' `na tavtsamosti abhyadhika', param brahma paramam

bhavan etc. in this connection. Another question that is sometimes raised is

whether God is personal or impersonal. 35 God is not personal in the sense of

having a material or prakrta form. His personality has no physical apparatus.

But he is personal in the sense of a conscious, willing, active personality

with aprakrta form. Thus Gita concept of God is monotheistic. There is one

supreme and independent God who governs the entire universe in all respects.

[Guest guest]

-

Greg Goode <goode

>

> Is this the situation?: Someone who has disciples is asking for advice

> from an e-mail list about a question on the existence of the universe?

>

pranAms Gregji:

 

Just a quick note before I log-off again...

 

As mentioned by himself long back, you have to excuse Sri Naren for his

english....

 

What I see in his message is that: Naren would like to discuss with others

about the existence of the universe. He might have already got an answer,

and he might have told his disciple the answer he knew! How ever, he might

be interested in knowing other points of view on this creation.

 

Naren: I congratulate you for your openness and your will to discuss

points. Please feel free to do so even in future. Now answering your

questions:

 

Your question: What are you thinking about this question: (perhaps, you want

to know the answer!)

Ans: NO. The universe does not exist outside the consciousness. (I am

sure on this)

 

Your question: Who does reply to it?

Ans: YOU. Because you are questioned.... Now, I replied because I am

questioned. Everyone can feel replying because everyone is questioned.

When the thought arises in the ocean of consciousness as a question, it

creates ripples in the same ocean. You seem to see different circles

running fast towards the opposite direction from the center. But the origin

is the same. And the ocean is the same. Who can answer whom when, in

reality, that alone exists!

 

I remain yours,

Madhava

> >>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

> >>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

> >>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

> >>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>

> >>HELP!

> >>=====

> >>

> >>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience

that

> >could the Man have some?

> >>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

> >>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

> >>

> >>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

>

[Guest guest]

-

Greg Goode <goode

<advaitin >; <Advaitin >

Cc: <vivekananda

25 January 2000 20:40

 

Further to a question on one of the lists -

 

Does the universe exist outside consciousness?

How do the Hindu teachings compare with the teachings in the West

(to the teachings of Science)?

 

========My response===============

 

We have three things: Universe - Existence - Consciousness.

 

The universe is a mixture of existence and non-existence.

(The Universe does not exist! It is a mixture of existence and

non-existence!)

This answer is in absolute harmony with the discoveries of modern science

under Quantum Mechanics (these form the core teachings of Modern Physics).

 

Existence, Consciousness and Bliss (Asti, Bhati, Preeya) are considered to

be the nearest descriptions of the ultimate reality. All these terms

describe the same ultimate reality - Hence "consciousness" may be

interchanged with "existence". But describing the universe as a mixture of

existence and non-existence fits better.

 

jay

Vivekananda Centre London

[Guest guest]

Hello!

 

Thank you for your nice reply!

 

What is your point of view about an idea of a God Creator? Doe's that

contrary to the Judeo Christian and to the idea du "big bang"?

 

I suppose that the time , in East, is considered as cyclic!

In West, time's idea est linear.

 

I consider that the idea of a God Creator is a linear time's idea. Thus :

God Creator, in the Hinduism, is joining the idea of Jewish Torah : IHVH!

(Yahwe)

 

While in the buddhism, there isn't God creator, and the time is cyclic!

 

That is a big difference between them!

 

(Can you understand my so bad english? : explaining my philosophic ideas in

english is very complicated for me.. and to you you too!..:-)

 

Thank you!

 

Sri Ramakrishna bless you!

 

Naren

 

============================

 

At 08:27 26/01/00 -0500, you wrote:

>Greg Goode <goode

>

>At 10:54 AM 1/26/00 -0800, Madhava K Turumella wrote:

>>"Madhava K Turumella" <madhava

>>

>>-

>>Greg Goode <goode

>>>

>>> Is this the situation?: Someone who has disciples is asking for advice

>>> from an e-mail list about a question on the existence of the universe?

>>>

>>pranAms Gregji:

>>

>>Just a quick note before I log-off again...

>>

>>As mentioned by himself long back, you have to excuse Sri Naren for his

>>english....

>>

>>What I see in his message is that: Naren would like to discuss with others

>>about the existence of the universe. He might have already got an answer,

>>and he might have told his disciple the answer he knew! How ever, he might

>>be interested in knowing other points of view on this creation.

>

>Thank you Madhava,

>

>For that clarification. Sri Naren. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This

>certainly is the place to discuss these issues! Everyone here probably

>agrees that nothing exists outside of consciousness, whether a grain of

>sand or the entire universe. And consciousness, understood this way, is

>*not* something that is the product or the epiphenomenon of biological or

>physical processes.

>

>As for creation, there are three main theories discussed in advaita. Like

>Madhava, I must dash off at this point now too. I'm sure the learned

>members of this forum will offer insights on these questions.

>

>Wishing you well.

>

>Om!

>

>--Greg

>

>>

>>Naren: I congratulate you for your openness and your will to discuss

>>points. Please feel free to do so even in future. Now answering your

>>questions:

>>

>>Your question: What are you thinking about this question: (perhaps, you want

>>to know the answer!)

>>Ans: NO. The universe does not exist outside the consciousness. (I am

>>sure on this)

>>

>>Your question: Who does reply to it?

>>Ans: YOU. Because you are questioned.... Now, I replied because I am

>>questioned. Everyone can feel replying because everyone is questioned.

>>When the thought arises in the ocean of consciousness as a question, it

>>creates ripples in the same ocean. You seem to see different circles

>>running fast towards the opposite direction from the center. But the origin

>>is the same. And the ocean is the same. Who can answer whom when, in

>>reality, that alone exists!

>>

>>I remain yours,

>>Madhava

>>

>>> >>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>>> >>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

>>> >>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

>>> >>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>>>

>>> >>HELP!

>>> >>=====

>>> >>

>>> >>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience

>>that

>>> >could the Man have some?

>>> >>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

>>> >>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

>>> >>

>>> >>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>>

>>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.

>><a href=" http://clickme./ad/Productopia ">Click Here</a>

>>

>>------

>>

>>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

>focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

>are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

>Address: advaitins

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

>Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.

><a href=" http://clickme./ad/productopiacpc2 ">Click Here</a>

>

>------

>

>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ Contact Email

Address: advaitins

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Universe and its Existence - More Quotations

 

In Me alone, all is born. In Me all exists, in Me all

dissolves, that non-dual Brahman am I.

- Kaivalyopanishad

 

I am subtler than the subtlest, I am greater than the

greatest. I am the manifold universe. I am ancient. I

am the Purush (primal being)...

- Kaivalyopanishad

 

.

O son of Kunti (Arjun), I am the taste in the water, the

radiance in the Sun and Moon, the Aum in all Ved, I am the

sound in space, I am the strength in humanity.

- Bhagavad Gita

 

The nonexistent was not, the existent was not...

- Rg Ved

 

The biggest among the big, and the subtlest among the subtle.

- Kathopanishad

 

All beings exist in Me. I do not exist in them. All this world

is pervaded by Me in my unmanifested form.

- Bhagavad Gita

[Guest guest]

There appear to be two or three different questions in the doubt regrding the

universe. the first one whether it exists outside Consciousness. If it does

exist, who is to know it? Some living being alone can certify that it exists.

Other wise it is as good as non-existing. The second one is distinction between

Hinduism and the Western Religions. In Hinduism Advaita Vedanta is the only one

that declares that the univierse is not and that Pure Consciousness alone

exists. Other schools of philossphy and all other religions Wetern or Eastern

accept the truth of the existence of the universe. All of them proclaim that

God is responsible for the universe and by His grace we get this universe for

living. Modern sciences deal with the world as visible. They investigate into

the subtle forces that operate the visible substances an their laws. They do not

go beyond the objective view. Religion which has the subjective view raises the

question and comes to understand the play of the Divine..

 

Madhava K Turumella <madhava wrote:

"Madhava K Turumella" <madhava

 

-

Greg Goode <goode

>

> Is this the situation?: Someone who has disciples is asking for advice

> from an e-mail list about a question on the existence of the universe?

>

pranAms Gregji:

 

Just a quick note before I log-off again...

 

As mentioned by himself long back, you have to excuse Sri Naren for his

english....

 

What I see in his message is that: Naren would like to discuss with others

about the existence of the universe. He might have already got an answer,

and he might have told his disciple the answer he knew! How ever, he might

be interested in knowing other points of view on this creation.

 

Naren: I congratulate you for your openness and your will to discuss

points. Please feel free to do so even in future. Now answering your

questions:

 

Your question: What are you thinking about this question: (perhaps, you want

to know the answer!)

Ans: NO. The universe does not exist outside the consciousness. (I am

sure on this)

 

Your question: Who does reply to it?

Ans: YOU. Because you are questioned.... Now, I replied because I am

questioned. Everyone can feel replying because everyone is questioned.

When the thought arises in the ocean of consciousness as a question, it

creates ripples in the same ocean. You seem to see different circles

running fast towards the opposite direction from the center. But the origin

is the same. And the ocean is the same. Who can answer whom when, in

reality, that alone exists!

 

I remain yours,

Madhava

> >>RamakrishnaVedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

> >>Claude Laurent <claude.laurent

> >>question from one of my disciples - universe's existence

> >>Cc: Vedanta (AT) Onelist (DOT) com

>

> >>HELP!

> >>=====

> >>

> >>" do you think that does the universe exist outside of the conscience

that

> >could the Man have some?

> >>Making the distinction between, Hinduism and the western Religions.

> >>(In correlation with the modern Science, about the creation)

> >>

> >>What are you thinking about this question? Who doe's reply to it?

>

 

 

 

 

 

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