Relativity and Advaita

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Swaminathan Venkataraman <nachiketas

<vivekananda

02 March 2000 21:32

 

> Dear Jay

>

> In the light of the science and spirituality discussions on the list, I

> thought I should share this interesting conversation between Sri Ramana

> Maharshi and one Swami Madhavatirtha. Jay, I am interested in your

comments

> on this. My understanding of relativity is not clear enough for me to

reason

> through this.

>

> Swami Madhavatirtha was writing a book to show how Sri Adi Sankara's

advaita

> and maya "theories" are confirmed by the modern theory of relativity. The

> book had been written and he showed it to the Maharshi for his comments.

On

> hearing his comments Madhavatirtha said " It was a revelation to me that

Sri

> Maharshi could judge off-hand, such modern theories as relativity,

> proceeding entirely on the basis of his own experience of the absolute"

>

> Here is the purport of the conversation as Swami Madhavatirtha writes:

>

> This theory, as is well known, maintains that time and space are purely

> relative notions dependent entirely upon the conditions of the

> observer and the object under observation and that there is no such thing

as

> absolute time and space. When 2 observers, taking different positions in

> space, observe a particular event, they obtain different time-spae

measures.

>

> Sri Maharshi pointed out to me that the very presumption of 2 observers

> being situated at 2 given points is itself an unwarranted one. That

is,taken

> for granted that there are 2 individual observers, the notionof relativity

> must itself apply to the space measure separating the two. In other words,

> the space between one observer and another being relative and unreal,

there

> cannot be more than one real observer.

>

> I at once recognised my error in the treatment of maya. I should have

shown

> in my book how the presumption (taken for granted by all scientists) that

> there can be 2 observers separated by a fixed time-space measure is itself

> subject to all the imperfections inherent in our perceptions, as

established

> by the theory of relativity.

>

> Swami

 

 

Dear Sir

 

This is a very interesting post. I will take the liberty of sending it to

our mail lists.

 

Since my childhood I have been a devotee of the Maharshi. Thank you for

sharing the above conversation you had with him.

 

My understanding of what you quote above is as follows:-

Relativity can only begin when you have two. (The field of duality -

sapeksh).

If there is no-two then the question of relativity does not arise.

The realm of the absolute is described as nirpeksh - not relative.

What the Maharshi seems to be implying above is that the very concept of

Space becomes relevant only when you have two. Some form of separation is

only possible if there is not-one (then we can operate in the field of

duality).

Hence the very concept of space is taking for granted that there is more

than one.

Modern Physics is progressing towards this kind of thinking but is not

anywhere near such lofty ideas. It cannot dismiss the very concept of

space. All it has done at the moment is to say space and time cannot be

separate and there is nothing like absolute space or absolute time. (both

are relative).

 

Special Relativity theory came about due to one very unique property

observed in nature. This property relates to something almost 'magical'

about light.

If we rush at great speed - say at the speed of light - and catch up to a

beam of light we find that it is still travelling away from us at the speed

of light! It is this unique speed of light that seems to remain the same -

no matter how fast we race towards it or away from it - it remains the same.

It is this almost 'magical quality' of constancy of speed of light that

translates with simple mathematics into the ideas that space and time can no

longer be rigid and independent but have to be malleable and inter-related.

Hence the use of the word relativity. (space and time are no longer

absolute and rigid but are elastic). Just a little bit more mathematics then

shows up as the famous equation E = mc2. (matter is equivalent to energy).

This theory was further refined (and called general relativity) which went

on to say that even the gravitational pull we observe is nothing more than a

geometric twisting of this space/time.

 

Physics today does not talk 'Advaita' but slowly and surely it is moving in

that direction.

(We have replaced absolute space and absolute time with absolute

'space/time'!)

 

 

regards

jay

Vivekananda Centre London