Is guruship american

[Guest guest]

Sri Ramana Maharshi said you can decide if a person can be your Guru by the

amount of peace you feel in His presence. The Guru is not an ordinary person. He

must have reached the divine or atleast covered most of the way. Such people are

in general rare.

He has the capacity to remove obstacles from your path and purify the mind. In

this regard a Guru is indispensable and an absolute necessity in the spiritual

path.

However depending on the mental maturity of the person, the Guru need not be a

human being. For some people , the indwelling spirit is itself the Guru , for

someothers nature is their Guru. However everybody needs someone to strike down

the ego. The ego cannot be struck down by oneself , it requires another power to

do so.

 

Regards,

Anand

 

 

On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:00:31 Henry ~~~~ wrote:

>Hi, I am Henry, am new to this list, a few thoughts as I read this post.

>There are dozens of guru's how does one determine which one has the

>higher, best truth? You are not suggesting that a guru acts like a pope and

>tells people what they should believe? Also, I have noticed that different

>gurus do put a different slant on the gita. If two different gurus have a

>different slant or meaning of the gita, which one is true, or how am I to

>determine which one is true?

>Also, In a country like america where everybody can read and have access to

>any book that they want to, and where everybody is considered equal, is

>there really a need for gurus in america in the year 2000.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Here is Swami Sivananda's advice on the subject:

 

http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/gurutattva.htm#_VPID_8

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

>"Jaishankar Narayanan" <jaishankar_n

>advaitin

>advaitin

> Re: Is guruship american

>Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:26:44 IST

>

>Dear Friends,

>

>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:00:31 PST "Henry ~~~~" <freegift55

>wrote

>

>" Hi, I am Henry, am new to this list, a few thoughts as I read this

>post.There are dozens of guru's how does one determine which one has the

>higher, best truth? You are not suggesting that a guru acts like a pope

>and

>tells people what they should believe? "

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:00:31 PST "Henry ~~~~" <freegift55

wrote

 

" Hi, I am Henry, am new to this list, a few thoughts as I read this

post.There are dozens of guru's how does one determine which one has the

higher, best truth? You are not suggesting that a guru acts like a pope and

tells people what they should believe? "

 

Jai: Henry has raised some important questions and I would answer them point

by point in keeping with the tradition. There is a difference between a

teaching tradition and tradition based on non verifiable beliefs. One

non-verifiable belief is as good as another

and so there is no reason why anybody should beleive what a Pope or Imam

says. There cannot be any arguments in case of beliefs like whether there is

heaven or not? or whether by following this 'saviour' or that 'saviour' one

will go to heaven etc. because these are non-verifiable beliefs. But the

equation 'I am Brahman' is like the equatiion e=mc^2. This is something to

be understood here and now. And so the need for a teacher. Regarding who has

the truth, one has to discriminate this on the basis of the teachings of the

different Gurus. Truth cannot go against already established body of

knowledge. So that which is non-negatable alone is the truth. The teaching

which reveals the truth of myself here and now, and which is not against

logic and perception, but reveals more than what these can reveal is the

true teaching.

 

Henry: " Also, I have noticed that different gurus do put a different slant

on the gita. If two different gurus have a different slant or meaning of

the gita, which one is true, or how am I to

determine which one is true? "

 

Jai : The interpretation which is not against established body of knowledge

and which is internally consistent and which is easily assimilable, that is

the correct teaching. These are the

criteria which are used to intrepret the Sentences of scriptures in the

tradition

 

1. upakrama and upasamhAra - The Begininng and End of a Topic, Chapter or

Book.

2. abhyAsa - That which is repeatedly told and stressed .

3. apUrvata - Whether what is revealed is unique. This is important because

we dont need a revealed scripture to just restate what we already know

through perception and inference.

4. phalam - The fruit or result of knowing the subject matter under

discussion. This is also important because a scripture should reveal only

useful things. It should have phalavat-artha-bodhakatvam. A scripture which

reveals that Crows have teeth in heaven is useless to me. Either such

sentences should be interpreted in such a way that it is useful to me or

they should be discarded.

5. upapatti - The supporting logic or analogy used to make the teaching

easily understandable.

6. arthavAda - Statements of praise and figurative speech which have to be

understood in the right context.

 

The verse is

 

upakramopasamharAvabhyasopUrvataphalam |

arthavadOpapattI ca lingam tAtparyaNirNayE ||

 

Henry : Also, In a country like america where everybody can read and have

access to any book that they want to, and where everybody is considered

equal, is there really a need for gurus in america in the year 2000.

 

Jai: Everybody has access to even books on quantum mechanics and abstract

mathematics. Just because you know english you cant read those books by

yourself and form an opinion. If you are a serious student you will enroll

in a university and try to study under a

qualified teacher. I think in america in year 2000 universities have not

become empty.

 

Henry : Point, just because something was done in a certain way in a certain

culture (e.g. India) for thousands of years, does this mean that it must be

done this way forever in all cultures in every nation on the planet earth.

One of the main aspects of america is the word, new and improved, americans

do things in a new way, resulting in going to the moon for example. Its

because americans are free to think freely that america is great and I might

add, one of the leading nations of the world.

 

Jai : This might be true for finite things. But how can you improve the

limitless. The limitless self is ever new and it cannot be improved in

anyway. Also there is a well established methodology of teaching which

needs no improvement in anyway.

 

Henry : In short, perhaps I am suggesting that the guru concept is very

un-american, and most americans find the role of guru as a cult concept

where you take away the persons right to read it for them selves and form

their own opinion.

 

Jai : Whether it is american or unamerican any cult is dangerous. I

understand your concern about cult Gurus. The danger with cults is that the

individuals faith is misused to manipulate the person. A Guru as per the

tradition is one who has known himself as the limitless. So such a person

has no pressure to manipulate anybody for his/her own appeasement and

aggrandisement. Anybody who is manipulative and tries to control people's

lives cannot be a Guru. So you have to be careful when you choose your Guru.

A Guru is one who enlightens the disciple but it is upto the disciple to

lead his life as per the vision of the teachings. Even in the Bhagavad Gita

Krishna

teaches Arjuna and then gives him the freedom to do as he likes.

 

 

Henry : as a side note, In Europe, one of the arguments between the

catholics and the protestant was, who gets to read the bible and interpret

it, who is the authority. The pope or each and every person who reads the

bible.

 

Jai: It does'nt matter who reads the scripture. The more important thing is

what they conclude after reading it and whethet such conclusions are valid.

 

with love and prayers,

 

Jaishankar.

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