Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Dear Lists, I tend to think of the great Sages (both within and without the Vedanta tradition) as either "reformers" or "innovators," although there is crossover. Recognizing that these are merely mental categories, it is interesting to contemplate which functions the various Sages have served humanity. The reformers have tended to clear and purify the spiritual atmosphere, correcting misguided or wrong ideas and bringing the masses back to the purity of Advaita. The innovators have offered new and glorious ideas and visions, often seeking to unite East and West and the world's various religions. Each of these categories serve a vital function. Some of them - The Reformers: Sri Shankaracharya, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj The Innovators: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Sarada Devi, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, J. Krishnamurthi, Buddha, Jesus Comments on this post and additions to either category are welcome. I'm sure I've left out or forgotten very many of the Sages from both categories. Hari OM, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2000 Report Share Posted April 12, 2000 Namaste, Sri Ramakrishna's homely analogy comes to mind: "Just as a King sends his generals to quell mutinies in the land, the Lord sends His messengers to overcome spiritual anarchy here!" I guess generals have touse different strategies in different times and places. Regards, s. >Tim Gerchmez <core >advaitin >Ramakrishna >CC: Advaitin > The Sages >Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:21:44 -0700 > > >Dear Lists, > >I tend to think of the great Sages (both within and without the Vedanta >tradition) as either "reformers" or "innovators," although there is >crossover. > >Recognizing that these are merely mental categories, it is interesting to >contemplate which functions the various Sages have served humanity. > >The reformers have tended to clear and purify the spiritual atmosphere, >correcting misguided or wrong ideas and bringing the masses back to the >purity of Advaita. The innovators have offered new and glorious ideas and >visions, often seeking to unite East and West and the world's various >religions. Each of these categories serve a vital function. > >Some of them - > >The Reformers: Sri Shankaracharya, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadatta >Maharaj > >The Innovators: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Sarada Devi, Swami >Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, J. Krishnamurthi, Buddha, Jesus > >Comments on this post and additions to either category are welcome. I'm >sure I've left out or forgotten very many of the Sages from both >categories. > >Hari OM, > >Tim ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2000 Report Share Posted April 12, 2000 There is definitely much crossover between the "reformer" and "innovator" categories - especially, the innovators often serve a function as reformers as well, but I've noticed that the reformers tend to retain a pure following, while the lineages of the innovators eventually begin to decay and disperse over time, necessitating a reformer to bring things back into line. A classic example is Buddha (an innovator). Buddhism split (both in India and wherever it spread) into so many different 'vehicles' that it began to lose effectiveness just a few generations after the Buddha's original disciples passed on - and it was Shankaracharya (a reformer) who helped to bring spiritual purity back to India. Again, these are just ideas and mental categories, but interesting to examine. Namaste, Tim At 06:06 AM 4/12/2000 PDT, you wrote: >Namaste, > > Sri Ramakrishna's homely analogy comes to mind: >"Just as a King sends his generals to quell mutinies in the land, the Lord >sends His messengers to overcome spiritual anarchy here!" I guess generals >have touse different strategies in different times and places. > >Regards, >s. > >>Tim Gerchmez <core >>advaitin >>Ramakrishna >>CC: Advaitin >> The Sages >>Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:21:44 -0700 >> >> >>Dear Lists, >> >>I tend to think of the great Sages (both within and without the Vedanta >>tradition) as either "reformers" or "innovators," although there is >>crossover. >> >>Recognizing that these are merely mental categories, it is interesting to >>contemplate which functions the various Sages have served humanity. >> >>The reformers have tended to clear and purify the spiritual atmosphere, >>correcting misguided or wrong ideas and bringing the masses back to the >>purity of Advaita. The innovators have offered new and glorious ideas and >>visions, often seeking to unite East and West and the world's various >>religions. Each of these categories serve a vital function. >> >>Some of them - >> >>The Reformers: Sri Shankaracharya, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadatta >>Maharaj >> >>The Innovators: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Sarada Devi, Swami >>Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, J. Krishnamurthi, Buddha, Jesus >> >>Comments on this post and additions to either category are welcome. I'm >>sure I've left out or forgotten very many of the Sages from both >>categories. >> >>Hari OM, >> >>Tim ----- BEING *IS*; What can add to or take away from It? Visit "The Core" Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's other pages are at: http://core.vdirect.net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2000 Report Share Posted April 12, 2000 Greetings Tim: Good to see you back and you have made some insightful observations. The question - who is visionary and who is a missionary is subjective and consequently judgemental. Some exposed their vision to the benefit the mass (visionary). Many followed the footsteps of the visionary and played their as a missionary. Few such as Shankara wanted to establish the mission of their vision (innovative reformers). Any classification of individuals into categories using our my imperfect tool of measurement (intellect) has pitfalls as you have rightly pointed out! regards, Ram Chandran --- Tim Gerchmez <core wrote: > > There is definitely much crossover between the > "reformer" and "innovator" > categories - especially, the innovators often serve > a function as reformers > as well, but I've noticed that the reformers tend to > retain a pure > following, while the lineages of the innovators > eventually begin to decay > and disperse over time, necessitating a reformer to > bring things back into > line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2000 Report Share Posted April 12, 2000 Hari OM, Ram, At 11:13 AM 4/12/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings Tim: > >Good to see you back and you have made some insightful >observations. The question - who is visionary and who >is a missionary is subjective and consequently >judgemental. Judgemental if taken seriously. Stated clearly as just a topic for interesting speculation here on the list. To put it differently, I was just making some conversation. If anyone takes it too seriously, it is them taking it in a way that I did not intend (and clearly stated as not intended that way), so how can I be called "judgemental" for just asking some lighthearted talk or speculating? It seems to me everything said is subjective. The Reality is found only in wordless silence. If people "freak out" about opinions or ideas contrary to their own, even when presented as just speculative conversation, then why does this list exist? What possible purpose for people to gather together in a discussion forum such as this? I think if you consider it judgemental, you're taking it way too seriously. I hope people here can relax, and enjoy an atmosphere of Sattva, rather than jump at anything that does not immediately agree with them. OM Shanthi, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2000 Report Share Posted April 12, 2000 Hari Om Tim: First, I do not disagree with what you said regarding overlapping situations. We can both express opposite viewpoints and still coexist peacefully in this list. This list is for you, me and for everyone. I didn't call you judgemental and I just made an "if and but statement" That was just a conjecture and did not imply you anyone else. If I have given you that impression, my apologies to you. Again, I want to welcome you and feel free to express your viewpoints. regards, Ram Chandran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2000 Report Share Posted April 13, 2000 Greetings TIM: Yes I can feel that you are on this list :-) Only yesterday, after reading your initial mail, I was just wondering --- "How come Tim's way of writing has changed so rapidly!" :-) Your e-mail, taking out on Ramji, proves that I am wrong :-) TAKE IT EASY TIM! Personally, I never thought you are trying to judge; neither did I interpret Sri Ramji's mail in your way. We very much understand that you are trying to make a conversation on this list. We look forward to your educative articles. Thank you. Best Regards, Madhava - Tim Gerchmez <core <advaitin > Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:40 PM Re: The Sages > > Hari OM, Ram, > > At 11:13 AM 4/12/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >Greetings Tim: > > > >Good to see you back and you have made some insightful > >observations. The question - who is visionary and who > >is a missionary is subjective and consequently > >judgemental. > > Judgemental if taken seriously. Stated clearly as just a topic for > interesting speculation here on the list. To put it differently, I was > just making some conversation. If anyone takes it too seriously, it is > them taking it in a way that I did not intend (and clearly stated as not > intended that way), so how can I be called "judgemental" for just asking > some lighthearted talk or speculating? > > It seems to me everything said is subjective. The Reality is found only in > wordless silence. If people "freak out" about opinions or ideas contrary > to their own, even when presented as just speculative conversation, then > why does this list exist? What possible purpose for people to gather > together in a discussion forum such as this? > > I think if you consider it judgemental, you're taking it way too seriously. > I hope people here can relax, and enjoy an atmosphere of Sattva, rather > than jump at anything that does not immediately agree with them. > > OM Shanthi, > > Tim > > ------ > Free E-Cards, Screensavers, and Digital Pictures! > Corbis.com: > http://click./1/3358/3/_/489436/_/955568582/ > ------ > > Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To from the list, send Email to <advaitin- > For other contact, Email to <advaitins > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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