Guest guest Posted April 23, 2000 Report Share Posted April 23, 2000 > Message: 4 > Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:13:55 -0400 > "f. maiello" <egodust > Re: Re: Karmayoga > > namaskaaram. > > karmayoga culminates finally in the release of > the concept of a doer. thus doing such a thing > or not misses the final point. > > one's actions thus aren't free; one's attitude > toward such actions are. our prarabdha is to > do such actions; our choice lies in whether or > not we're victims of such actions. to believe > that we are is the primal judgment...it's what > launched our hypnotic spell in suffering since > time immemorial! > > the word and idea of "judgment" is farcical. > there is no possibility in it. > > the roles alotted to souls in manifestation are > vital in their process of unfolding...meeting > the format and script designed with such care and > precision by isvara--*far beyond* the intellect's > relative capacity to understand. > > the world is a Play...brahman's Sport (leela) > and it *requires* all kinds of people to work. > how else could it be? > > the jnani finally sees this and has no more > misconceptions about judgments. judgments > about others or himself. adharma is finally > merely an appearance, *as such*; and without it > dharma could not exist...leela could not exist. > > whatever one's behavior has been, is and will be, > has been, is and will be vital for the role alotted. > > we are in fact all already Self-realized and > the persona needs only to recognize it is so. > > all our actions are inscrutable therefore. > they cannot be judged. > > this is the way for the transformed soul. > it stands undaunted in the face of morality. > it stands islandlike and undefiled. > it stands beyond categorization. > it stands like ice amidst flames. > > it soars in love beyond hope! > > it is OM unveiled. This is wonderful Frank. Thankyou. I have wanted to ask you the difference between sunyata & moksha? And what you see the role of the personal, in the awakening from emptiness into fullness? I know we often speak of Impersonal Source awareness .. consciousness ItSelf. Yet the play of duality .. impermanence continues while we are here. I know there are different stages & recently I read about how a Sufi writer called Almaas feels that just transcendence of our personality & body (sunyata) ... is not the whole potential Realised yet. He goes on to explain that the ego structures of the personality are still available & there for now conscious transmutation (dissolution). In this was emptiness, may become fullness, of Essence (Self awareness). I also would like to ask you what you would define Soul as .. and Essence as? Nice to meet again, love, Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2000 Report Share Posted April 24, 2000 Colette wrote: > I have wanted to ask you the difference between sunyata & moksha? > And what you see the role of the personal, in the awakening from > emptiness into fullness? I know we often speak of Impersonal Source > awareness .. consciousness ItSelf. Yet the play of duality .. > impermanence continues while we are here. I know there are different > stages & recently I read about how a Sufi writer called Almaas feels > that just transcendence of our personality & body (sunyata) ... > is not the whole potential Realised yet. He goes on to explain that > the ego structures of the personality are still available & there > for now conscious transmutation (dissolution). In this was emptiness, > may become fullness, of Essence (Self awareness). I also would like > to ask you what you would define Soul as .. and Essence as? > hi colette. namaste. first of all, i should remind that a cursory overview of the statements made by any metaphysical teacher as well as a sage will appear to be fraught with contradictions. simply because they are having to address many types and temperaments of individuals at varying stages of their soul's so-called 'path of return.' for this reason, contradictions can are also found texts such as the upanishads, bhagavad gita and yoga vasishtha. therefore the different views being expressed on the List are valid within each parameter of understanding. this always has to be borne in mind--for almost any topic in philosophy. having said that... in response to your questions: sunyata may be equated to the nirguna (attributeless) state of brahman; while moksha is, within this purview, the nonduality between the nirguna and saguna states of brahman. in light of the above, i quite agree with the sufi mystic, in that sunyata alone falls short of the Totality in moksha. however, moksha embraces not only the fusion or nonduality of nirguna and saguna brhaman, it also transcends even this [what is thus merely a concept!]. therefore it is unknowable in its ultimate essence. therefore the sage is finally silent in the face of the question "what is moksha?" as for the question, "what is soul?" the answer has to be from the vyavaharika (relative plane)...since soul is itself a product thereof. and within this relative plane, various answers could be valid in trying to render a suitable definition. the most definitive is: the soul is the mediary between the spirit and ego [atman and jiva], termed 'jivatman.' further light on this can be shed by the following: the popluar or exoteric view of vedanta claims that upon the mahasamadhi (death of the body), the soul is utterly absorbed into brahman, to never return. whereas esoteric vedanta, from what i understand, is suggesting something else: according to the rig veda, the interlude of brahman (pralaya), where there is nothing manifest, brahman becomes somehow desirous to experience Itself and so projects Its leela through maya (leela = the Sport or Play of brahman). the upanishads tell us also that maya is without beginning or end. therefore, it's my belief that the soul, since it gets absorbed into its Source in brahman, will also undergo the same experience as did the nirguna state of brahman [in pralaya]...thus Itself be an eternal recurrence. thus the jivatman (soul) will *eventually* make its return. the metaphysics involved here, however, is very complex; and from what i can see is ultimately shrouded in pure mystery. this in fact relates to what has to be regarded as the unknowable nature of not only brahman, but also the maya of brahman, as Its leela manifestation. and it is this unknowable factor that in fact ushers the soul into moksha (liberation through freedom!). one is thus released from philosophical speculation itself, representing the dissolution of the central obstacle to freedom: the infliction of the endless obsession commonly inhering in the inquiring mind. therefore, it finally doesn't matter whether there is in fact a continuence in manifestation or not. simply because all questions and inquiries have become themselves irrelevant. the soul is free and requires nothing--at least nothing that can be discernable in relative terms. in this regard, it's quite impossible to convey in words, or even conceive what it is in truth *within one's own mind* (since any such conception is necessarily relative in the face of that which is Absolute!), exactly how and what manner of such dynamic can possibly register the primal essence of the moksha 'state.' it is in light of this it's referred to as the 'stateless state.' ....i.e. it is essentially a *pure mystery*. love ONE. as ever, frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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