Ancient Indian History - When was the break?

May 18, 2000

Shri Ramchandranji & Advaitin List:

Hari OM & Pranams.

Your note on the admiration of Hindus past knowledge base by Foreigners

touched upon a subject which I have discussed with Shri Madhava several times

earlier in private and which agitates my mind quite a lot.

What were the chain of events that led the Hindus to, let go the path of the

inquisition and scientifc research and lapse into meaningless rituals to pass

the time, thus leading to its decline and eventual conquest by foreigners, who

were but a fraction of our own population. As I promised to Shri Madhava, this

is a subject which I plan to investigate (after I have discharged my wordly

responsibilites) and get to the bottom of it so that it does not recur again.

It is indeed strange that with all our analytical skills and powers of

observation, we could not figure out how to extract coal and iron ore although

North India has one of the largest mines in the world. So we missed out on the

steel, steam engines and Industrial revolution. The disastrous results are

known to all of us.

So While we are perhaps better of than most parts of the world in

conceptualizations of divine phenomena and analysis of human mind, I feel

there was some sort of a mental block when it came to scientific analysis of

worldly matter and its industrial and military applications. We were run over

as a society or got depraved of our wealth by smarter countries as it has

happened in last 1000 years. As a result we have now to learn about the

greatness of our own earlier works through third party sources.

Just as a curiosity, I want to know whether any of our saints, Sankara,

Ramanuja, Madhava, predict our downfall in military and material terms.

Could it be the emphasis on "Other worldly" solutions cloded our minds to the

extent that we would continue to live on this planet for a few thousand years

more? Or is it the Divine Law of cycle of prosperity where in each region has

its own ups and downs. Whatever it is I intend to find it out sooner or

later.

I recollect touching on this subject briefly with Dr Sadanand when I met him

in IIT Madras in January. One of his responses was that Hindus are prone to

contradict each other, with a view to emphasising their individuality and

creativity, rather than building on each others work and progressing as a

society. I recollect that even Newton said that he saw further than most, only

by standing on the shoulders of Giants.

Namaste

P.B.V.Rajan

Excerpts from an interesting introduction by Sir Monier Williams in his famous

and highly respected Sanskrit-English Dictionary : (Source: Swami Atmananda of

Vedanta Mission, India)

" We are appalled by the length of some of India's literary productions (in

Sanskrit) in wisdom, depth and shrewdness of their moral apophthegms they are

unrivaled. The Hindus are perhaps the only nation, except the Greeks, who

have investigated, independently and in true scientific manner, the general

laws which govern the evolution of languages. More than this, the Hindus had

made considerable advances in astronomy, algebra, arithmetic, botany, and

medicine. Hindus were Darwinians centuries before the birth of Darwin, and

evolutionists centuries before the doctrine of evolution had been accepted by

the Huxleys of our times, and before any word like evolution existed in any

language of the world."

-- Sir Monier Williams

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May 19, 2000

On 18 May 2000, PBV Rajan wrote:

> Shri Ramchandranji & Advaitin List:

>

> Hari OM & Pranams.

>

> Your note on the admiration of Hindus past knowledge base by Foreigners

> touched upon a subject which I have discussed with Shri Madhava several times

> earlier in private and which agitates my mind quite a lot.

>

> What were the chain of events that led the Hindus to, let go the path of the

> inquisition and scientifc research and lapse into meaningless rituals to pass

> the time, thus leading to its decline and eventual conquest by foreigners, who

> were but a fraction of our own population. As I promised to Shri Madhava, this

> is a subject which I plan to investigate (after I have discharged my wordly

> responsibilites) and get to the bottom of it so that it does not recur again.

>

After going through some of the talks by My Pujya Gurudev i found that the

reason was the backtrack of "Tantra" from society. Some bad elements

distorted Tantra due to which people started disliking it and the

result was the backtrack of Shakti from society to jungles. If Shakti

doesn't remain in society then for sure society won't be able to fight

against the oppressions.

>

> It is indeed strange that with all our analytical skills and powers of

> observation, we could not figure out how to extract coal and iron ore although

> North India has one of the largest mines in the world. So we missed out on the

> steel, steam engines and Industrial revolution. The disastrous results are

> known to all of us.

Ancient India has been great at metallurgy. Rather as i have heard till

now people have not been able to achieve the standard of steel which

ancestors used to produce.

>

> So While we are perhaps better of than most parts of the world in

> conceptualizations of divine phenomena and analysis of human mind, I feel

> there was some sort of a mental block when it came to scientific analysis of

> worldly matter and its industrial and military applications. We were run over

> as a society or got depraved of our wealth by smarter countries as it has

> happened in last 1000 years. As a result we have now to learn about the

> greatness of our own earlier works through third party sources.

In India the focus has always been on the utimate reality and in order to

achieve that we don't allow our mind to go for the side applications. Also

much of this happens by itself because one gets absorbed in the jouney

towards bliss. But i guess still rishi-munis had the solution for anything

which is more compatible to us and nature.

But i have seen that people generally go away from these saying that they

are hurdles on the way to ultimate reality and the rest others don't

believe in them. So what is left are the just few. N in such a case we

don't proceed towards anything.

Sometimes i think it can be that our rishis always stayed in harmony with

nature. So watever appealed to this harmony came through and whatever was

not didn't happen.

>

> Just as a curiosity, I want to know whether any of our saints, Sankara,

> Ramanuja, Madhava, predict our downfall in military and material terms.

> Could it be the emphasis on "Other worldly" solutions cloded our minds to the

> extent that we would continue to live on this planet for a few thousand years

> more? Or is it the Divine Law of cycle of prosperity where in each region has

> its own ups and downs. Whatever it is I intend to find it out sooner or

> later.

>

> I recollect touching on this subject briefly with Dr Sadanand when I met him

> in IIT Madras in January. One of his responses was that Hindus are prone to

> contradict each other, with a view to emphasising their individuality and

> creativity, rather than building on each others work and progressing as a

> society. I recollect that even Newton said that he saw further than most, only

> by standing on the shoulders of Giants.

>

> Namaste

> P.B.V.Rajan

>