FW: [ANetofJewels] Fwd: RE: June 4, 2000 A Net of Jewels

[Guest guest]

 

Sandeep Chatterjee [sandeepc]

Sunday, June 04, 2000 9:24 PM

ANetofJewels

Re: [ANetofJewels] Fwd: RE: June 4, 2000 A Net of

Jewels

 

 

Hiya Madhava,

 

Am not sure whether you are on this List or only on the advaitin group.

Anyway, my two bits on your two bits.<s>

 

 

<SNIP>

 

>

> Statement number 1:

> ------

> Spontaneous, true action happens naturally when there is no "you"

> checking whether the action conforms to your own idea of what's best

> for

> you.

> -----

>

> Madhava replies:

> I think, there is no place for the word "Action" when there is

> no "you".

> Either it is Spontaneous, or it is true action --- it is not action.

> It is

> called as "akarma" (Bh.Gita)... How could you check an event,

> otherwise

> called by you as an action, which never occurred at all?

 

Irrespective of whether a 'you" is present or not, actions happen all the

time.

The issue would be whether this "you" is aligned to the happening or is not

aligned.

The deepest alignment would thus be the very absence of the "you".

 

>

> Statement number 2:

> ------------------------------

> Human beings have no independent or autonomous existence whether they

> accept

> the fact

> or not. And whether they like it or not, they are being helplessly

> lived

> within the vast totality

> of an imponderably intricate creation over which the have absolutely

> no

> control.

> ----------------------------

>

> Madhava replies:

> I presume that there is something else I didn't understand related to

> this

> statement. However taking the statement as it is --- I would beg to

> disagree.

>

> I don't think this conforms to the advaitic teaching. Advaita says

> that you

> are the Generator, Operator, Destroyer - GOD... of *your* universe.

> You are

> the controller... You are *Vibhu*. You are the omnipotent one. You

> have

> every control on *your* universe. There are no human beings, there

> is only

> one being that is you.

 

I suspect a mixing takeing place here.

Consciousness (or whatever word you wish to use) identified to an entity (a

Madhava for example) would be what is referred in the original quote.

 

The "Vibhu you", the Generator, the Ominipotent etc etc (again mere words)

being referred to, is not the "identified consciousness" (the Madhava)

wallowing in limitations, even though it is the same "THAT" which has

manifested the identified entity.

 

An example may help clarity.

 

A king's kingdom was so vast, that all that one could see, no matter where

one travelled, all was part of his kingdom.

Now, in order to experience the satisfaction of war planning and the thrill

of conquest etc, etc, the king assumes a corner of his kingdom is not part

of his kingdom and thus proceeeds to the campaign of conquest of that

particular corner.

 

The apriori false assumption is the premise on which the particular

experience can be manifested. There is no other way.

 

Life to be what it is, can only be manifested on the premise of duality.

 

Incidentally Madhava, the "Omnipotent Vibhu you" is as much an idea, a

concept (as Ramesh is fond of saying) as much as the identified entity

"Madhava".

 

Ideation is in phenomenality, is phenomenality.

 

> As long as you perceive this universe with

> multiplicity, then you fear, you are helpless, you are bound, you are

> weak.

> The moment you realize your false thinking, that you lost control ---

> where

> as in reality you are in full control, the world changes... You get

> the

> Iccaha shakti, jnAna shakti, kriyasakti. You will understand that the

> creation which is created by you, is perfectly under your own

> control....

 

 

The true realization or let us say the realization is complete, total, when

there is no longer any 'you" left to even realize that realization has

happened or is complete.

 

Then who is to get "Iccha shakti" when "Iccha" is no more?

Then who is get Gyana shakti, when the "knower of Gyan" is no more?

The who is do get Kriya shakti when the "karta" of the kriya is no more?

 

All these Icchashakti, the Gyan shakti, Kriyashakti are now the "new goals",

the "new desires" of the same mind which was chasing a million dollars

previously.

 

Do I judge the one chasing to be superior to the other one?

No.

Just that both are chasing and intrinsically of no difference, thereby being

nothing to do with Truth (which is another word being used for the

communication)

 

> This statement applies best in terms of Dvaita, where one sees GOD as

> a

> separately existing entity. GOD created this universe, also he

> created we

> humans. We as human beings have no independent or autonomous

> existence

> whether we accept the fact or not.... so on and so forth... But

> then I

> wonder how did this statement coined for the advaitic meditation!

 

 

I trust I have been able to throw some light.

 

Just my two bits anyway.

 

 

Cheers

 

Sandeep

 

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