RE: [ANetofJewels] Fwd: RE: June 4, 2000 A Net of Jew els

[Guest guest]

Sandeep Chatterjee [sandeepc]

 

Hiya Madhava,

 

Am not sure whether you are on this List or only on the advaitin group.

Anyway, my two bits on your two bits.<s>

 

[Madhava Replies:]

 

I am not a member of that list, how ever I received your message through a

cross-posting. Thank you for your response.

>

> Statement number 1:

> ------

> Spontaneous, true action happens naturally when there is no "you"

> checking whether the action conforms to your own idea of what's best

> for

> you.

> -----

>

> Madhava replies:

> I think, there is no place for the word "Action" when there is

> no "you".

> Either it is Spontaneous, or it is true action --- it is not action.

> It is

> called as "akarma" (Bh.Gita)... How could you check an event,

> otherwise

> called by you as an action, which never occurred at all?

 

Irrespective of whether a 'you" is present or not, actions happen all the

time.

The issue would be whether this "you" is aligned to the happening or is not

aligned.

The deepest alignment would thus be the very absence of the "you".

 

 

[Madhava Replies:]

 

There you are.. I was thinking of this when I was writing of Iccha Sakti,

Jnana Shakti, Kriyashakti. By advocating the concept that action happens

whether *you* are present or not --- I believe that you are drifting far

away from the path of Advaita.

 

> statement. However taking the statement as it is --- I would beg to

> disagree.

>

> I don't think this conforms to the advaitic teaching. Advaita says

> that you

> are the Generator, Operator, Destroyer - GOD... of *your* universe.

> You are

> the controller... You are *Vibhu*. You are the omnipotent one. You

> have

> every control on *your* universe. There are no human beings, there

> is only

> one being that is you.

 

I suspect a mixing takeing place here.

Consciousness (or whatever word you wish to use) identified to an entity (a

Madhava for example) would be what is referred in the original quote.

 

The "Vibhu you", the Generator, the Ominipotent etc etc (again mere words)

being referred to, is not the "identified consciousness" (the Madhava)

wallowing in limitations, even though it is the same "THAT" which has

manifested the identified entity.

 

[Madhava Replies:]

So you mean to say there are two kinds of consciousness (a) Identified ---

as Madhava (b) unidentified --- as Vibhu?

 

Dream will be there as long as a dreamer is there... The moment the dreamer

wakes up where does the dream go? The world, which is nothing but a dream,

goes of the moment you wake up. I can see it, a person standing next to

somebody who is sleeping, can understand the other person is sleeping, but

can't say what the other person is dreaming. Perhaps, the dreamer is

undergoing a nightmare, but for the person who is awake is that real? It is

a mere dream for the awaken but a nightmare for the dreamer.

 

Your statement number 2 conveyed to me: "Oh dreamer please undergo your

dream, there is no way that you can wake up, you are helpless..." This

doesn't make sense. By the way, even if you shout ---- a dreamer will never

understand your statement. You have to wake him up and convey the truth

that he is dreaming. But then a person who is awake, by himself, will

understand that *he* was dreaming. You don't need to teach....

 

[...........]

 

 

An example may help clarity.

 

A king's kingdom was so vast, that all that one could see, no matter where

one travelled, all was part of his kingdom.

Now, in order to experience the satisfaction of war planning and the thrill

of conquest etc, etc, the king assumes a corner of his kingdom is not part

of his kingdom and thus proceeeds to the campaign of conquest of that

particular corner.

 

The apriori false assumption is the premise on which the particular

experience can be manifested. There is no other way.

 

[Madhava Replies:]

 

Again, your example says that there is (a) a king (b) his kingdom. But then

who is the king, where is the kingdom? where is all this taking place?

 

[........]

 

 

Life to be what it is, can only be manifested on the premise of duality.

 

Incidentally Madhava, the "Omnipotent Vibhu you" is as much an idea, a

concept (as Ramesh is fond of saying) as much as the identified entity

"Madhava".

 

Ideation is in phenomenality, is phenomenality.

 

[Madhava Replies:]

If Ramesh is fond of saying that everything is an idea, then why is he

saying that humans are limited whether accept it or not! I think there is

something wrong....

[........]

 

The true realization or let us say the realization is complete, total, when

there is no longer any 'you" left to even realize that realization has

happened or is complete.

 

Then who is to get "Iccha shakti" when "Iccha" is no more?

Then who is get Gyana shakti, when the "knower of Gyan" is no more?

The who is do get Kriya shakti when the "karta" of the kriya is no more?

All these Icchashakti, the Gyan shakti, Kriyashakti are now the "new goals",

the "new desires" of the same mind which was chasing a million dollars

previously.

 

[Madhava Replies:]

 

(1) You said in the beginning itself that Action takes place whether *you*

are present or not! These three are required any apparent action for you

to take place.

 

(2) Pardon me, but you have mistaken... I don't think anybody would say that

these three are desires! I learned that the Omnipotent is identified with

these three qualities (refer: lalita sahasra nAma --- iccASakti jnAnaSkati

kriyASakti svaroopiNee) The nature (mother) is identified with these three

qualities. A desire, a knowledge and a power to do... I didn't mean that

you can fulfill these three desires, actually you will become omnipotent and

achieve the three qualities by which he is identified.

 

Let me conclude:

A desire to coin a separate philosophy (iccasakti :-)), a knowledge to lure

people in to the web (jnana shakti :-)) and a power to keep them in the ring

(kriyashakti :-)) ---- is possible to only a ring master. Alas, those who

understand that --- either become a part of the ring, or become a

ringmaster, but never walk away and set themselves free from all the

apparent ********....

 

I remain yours,

Madhava