Depression

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone

 

This is slightly off topic, however I feel a compelled to ask. I

consider all of you to have similar ideas to myself about mind, self,

etc. so I felt that I may be able to get some good insight.

 

I have a friend very close to me that is struggling with depression. I

have many things to say regarding this subject, however I am wondering

if anyone would like to share there views on the subject. She has

recently turned towards Anti Depressants. I personally do not feel that

this is the appropriate path towards a cure.

 

I have started to write her a letter, (as I promised her) regarding this

issue. It starts as follows. I guess what I am after is other insights

into the mind, and how to gain control. The tricky part is trying to

explain it in away that is understandable to someone who has no concept

of "Mind". Here is what I have done so far.

 

My dearest friend,

 

Depression is a state of mind. Drugs suppress this state of mind, but

do not cure the problem. Unfortunately, the same mind that causes this

depression is the only mind that can cure it. You must turn inwards and

focus on the question, "Why am I depressed?" The only possibility for

peace is within yourself, not within mind-altering substance. This does

not correct the problem, it merely conceals it.

 

Think of a child who has spilled cranberry juice on the carpet. His

first instinct is to clean it up. He tries and tries, finally giving

up. He then conspires to move the couch over just a bit to conceal the

stain. "A ha!" he say’s, "I’m a genius. No one will never know."

Nevertheless, one-day he decides to move the couch, and discovers the

stain has only gotten worse.

The stain has set in the carpet or in the seat of your mind. Covering

it up did not make it disappear; it only gave an illusion of its

disappearance.

 

___

 

Please offer any insight you may have,

 

Concetta

 

Om Shanti...

 

"Everything bad that happens to us, occurs because we missed some

synchronistic opportunity to avoid it"

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Concetta Curtis wrote:

> Hello everyone

>

> This is slightly off topic, however I feel a compelled to ask. I

> consider all of you to have similar ideas to myself about mind, self,

> etc. so I felt that I may be able to get some good insight.

>

> I have a friend very close to me that is struggling with depression. I

> have many things to say regarding this subject, however I am wondering

> if anyone would like to share there views on the subject. She has

> recently turned towards Anti Depressants. I personally do not feel that

> this is the appropriate path towards a cure.

>

> I have started to write her a letter, (as I promised her) regarding this

> issue. It starts as follows. I guess what I am after is other insights

> into the mind, and how to gain control. The tricky part is trying to

> explain it in away that is understandable to someone who has no concept

> of "Mind". Here is what I have done so far.

>

> My dearest friend,

>

> Depression is a state of mind. Drugs suppress this state of mind, but

> do not cure the problem.

 

 

Don't know how drugs work. But when depressed our mind is caught up in the

want of something. When we are not able to get it we feel depressed.

Degree of depression will depend on the degree of attachment with that

want. When person in its ignorance thinks that ones life is money for

example. Then when one looses money then it appears to him that she/he

is done with the life. Problem here arises because of the misconception

about the life.When one life gets in to real danger or some other

quality of he person gets in to danger due to this depression its then

that one suddenly realises the importance of life. And gets to know one is

killing oneself.

 

 

First step is to know that one depressed or that one is having a problem.

A person who is depressed knows that he is sad but doesn't know that it is

really a problem for one is lost in grieving over something. Only when

this depression causes a danger to ones some other precious thing or

quality or life that one awakes startled.

 

 

After having known that yes one is depressed for sure. I has to realise

from within that i want to come out of depression. After that starts the

procedure for dealing with depression.

 

 

In depression one mind is cauht on to one subject or thought. So if we can

do somethig that can charm away ones mind then that can do something

positive. For instance the Music which one likes most. I think Music

appeals most to soul and will help a graet deal in depression. I think

listening to Vedic Chanting can help. the chantings which very

inspirational can be used.

 

 

Back here a physilogist in NIMHANS wasstudying the effect of Sudarshan

Kriya Yoga on Depression. I think he got positive results.

 

 

Generally evbery emotion of our effects our breathing. So if we can

control our breathing we can control our emotions too. Pranayama will be

of tremendous help in Depression. I remeber after doing Pranayama my whole

brain used to get awakened. Used to fill with vitality and energy.

Pranayama will make her gain the lost confidence. Pranayama done

early morning before sunrise after taking bath and all in amidst the

silence of nature will be of great help. I used to like doing it that way.

 

 

 

I don't know how drugs act. Do they activate other positive regions of

brain ? or remove the excess of blocking that depression causes.

 

 

Acupressure and Acupuncture can be of great help for depression will

prevent the energy to flow in certain parts of body and through

Acupuncture and Acupressure these blockages of energy can be removed.

 

 

If use want to use some mantraas i can give you the ones specifically

designed for depression. But there the problem arises of correct

pronunciation and yantraas and in the procurement of other things required

in this small sadhana.

 

 

The best thing is that she has to know what life is ? Life it just that

for which she is grieving or does is it much more then this. Situation has

come up for her to learn what life is. I think one should look at life

this way. Failures are the best teachers.

 

If you want you can give her name of healing list these loving people will

send her healing till she gets well.

 

e-mail address of healing list is healingacrosstheinternet

 

Your friend will be in my prayers.

 

love,

Anurag

> Unfortunately, the same mind that causes this

> depression is the only mind that can cure it. You must turn inwards and

> focus on the question, "Why am I depressed?" The only possibility for

> peace is within yourself, not within mind-altering substance. This does

> not correct the problem, it merely conceals it.

>

> Think of a child who has spilled cranberry juice on the carpet. His

> first instinct is to clean it up. He tries and tries, finally giving

> up. He then conspires to move the couch over just a bit to conceal the

> stain. "A ha!" he say’s, "I’m a genius. No one will never know."

> Nevertheless, one-day he decides to move the couch, and discovers the

> stain has only gotten worse.

> The stain has set in the carpet or in the seat of your mind. Covering

> it up did not make it disappear; it only gave an illusion of its

> disappearance.

>

> ___

>

> Please offer any insight you may have,

>

> Concetta

>

> Om Shanti...

>

> "Everything bad that happens to us, occurs because we missed some

> synchronistic opportunity to avoid it"

>

[Guest guest]

If we wish to practise spirituality, one must first get into a normal state of

mind. Therefore to teach a person with depression about the Self etc would be

out of place.

Some common antidotes to depression are :

1) Long evening walks. Walking is a natural anti depressant.

 

2) Laughter is the best medicine to depression. Forget rules and restrictions in

daily life for a brief period. Do things that make you laugh or take the company

of people who make you laugh.

 

3) Practise of yoga asanas , pranic energization, regulated breathing - all

better to be learnt from a professional.

 

This is just my personal view on the subject.

 

Om,

Anand

>You must turn inwards and

>focus on the question, "Why am I depressed?" The only possibility for

>peace is within yourself, not within mind-altering substance.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>

> 2) Laughter is the best medicine to depression. Forget rules and

restrictions in daily life for a brief period. Do things that make you laugh

or take the company of people who make you laugh.

 

yes laughter and company of positive and happy persons will be of great

help.

[Guest guest]

Depression is a state of mind due to fear caused by an

event of the past. The person depressed gets the

recollection of that event often and on. The story

memory which causes the measury is known in Vedanta as

Vasanas. The best way to get rid of Vasanas is attach

the mind from the object of depression to other

objects. Ideally conducting Sadhana can erase the

Vasanas through Yoga, the procedure to deprogram the

mind.

 

Drugs can help a person from depression then there is

potential for drug addiction and other side effects.

Those in depression also divert their attention by

drinking which causes alcholic addiction.

 

The spiritual approach to getting out of depression is

through get the memory out of the system through

Bhakti Yoga (diverting the attention to the divine

through prayers), Karma Yoga (divert the mind by

conducting community service and learn to accept the

outcome) and Jnana Yoga (discussing the cause of

depression and how to deal with through counseling).

The person who suffers from depression due to loss of

faith on others. Suddenly, the person feels that

everyone is against him/her and this causes the fear.

 

The solution is not easy and a trustworthy friend is

urgerntly needed to get this person out of misery. It

is very important for all us to cutivate habits of

faith and trustworthiness to our fellow citizens so

that we can learn to protect ourself by lending

support to others.

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Mahatma Gandhi has a beautiful suggestion to get out

of depression based on his personal experience. This

quotation from Gandhi is from Young India (1925), pp,

1078-1079:

 

"I find solace in the Bhagavadgita that I miss even in

the Sermon of on the Mount. When disappointment

startsme in the face and all alone I see not one ray

of light. I go back to the Bhagavadgita. I find a

verse here and a verse there and I immediately begin

to simle in the midst of overwhelming tragedies - and

my life has been full of external tragedies - and if

they have left no visible, no indelible scar on me, I

owe it all to the teaching of the Bhagavadgita."

 

The best way to avoid depression is to look for

remedies in advance and Bhagavadgita is a great

preventive medicine without any side effects!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

1. Reading Bhagwadgita.

2 Pranayama

3 Mantra Japa. There are anti-depressent mantras in Atharvanaveda and

Yajurveda.

4 Walking through woods

 

Last but not the least. Here is what I prefer: GO FOR SCUBA DIVING!

 

I find it very good. I am a certified open water diver and I go for Scuba

Diving most of the weekends. You get a chance to watch a lot of colorful

fish swimming around you. Who made them swim, who is giving them food, who

do they mix with... Keep watching the fish... You get a chance to review

your own life.

 

Life is a big ocean. We are fish, we keep swimming in it. We search for

food. If we can't find the environment/circumstances condusive then we

migrate --- just like fish.

 

By the way, we have Seers like Soubhari who used to sit in the ocean and do

meditation! (refer: Mahabharata) And if you remember, Duryodhana after the

war went in to the ocean and hid himself there. I bet he was depressed :-)

Bhima was searching for him on earth and Krishna tells him that this fellow

is inside the ocean. Then Bhima challenges him to come out and fight. That

is how Duryodhana got killed. Life is like that, you have to face the

world, or you have to face the death.

 

Here is where you can find more about Scuba Diving: www.padi.com

Mind you, it requires a lot of training and precautions. You have to

maintain sound health. You should have very good breath pattern. In a way,

it is as good as doing Pranayama. Once you get to know it, you will love

it.. :-)

 

I remain yours,

Madhava

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Concetta Curtis <starcrazed@r...> wrote:

 

[snip]

 

Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a trained

psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified to offer

advice in this arena, imo.

[Guest guest]

May be someone must have asked if Shree Ramkrishna Paramhansa possesses a

degree from a qualified university to make a Swami Vivekananda out of

Narendra.

 

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, jody wrote:

> advaitin , Concetta Curtis <starcrazed@r...> wrote:

>

> [snip]

>

> Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a trained

> psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified to offer

> advice in this arena, imo.

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , <anurag@s...> wrote:

>

> May be someone must have asked if Shree Ramkrishna Paramhansa

possesses a

> degree from a qualified university to make a Swami Vivekananda out

of

> Narendra.

 

There are no degrees for gurus, but certainly for psychologists,

especially when dealing with the disease of depression.

 

There are spiritual endeavors, and psychological ones. The

spiritual endeavors should be guided by gurus and teachers,

but the psychological ones are best left to those who are

trained to deal with them, the psychologists.

 

Narendra's transformation to Vivekananda was primarily a

spiritual endeavor, with some psychological overtones.

 

Depression is most certainly a psychological/psychiatric

issue, which gurus and spiritual teachers are not very

well equipped to deal with, imo.

 

--jody.

>

> On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, jody wrote:

>

> > advaitin , Concetta Curtis <starcrazed@r...>

wrote:

> >

> > [snip]

> >

> > Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a trained

> > psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified to offer

> > advice in this arena, imo.

> >

[Guest guest]

I have taken psychology classes. I have studied the brain and

psychology in college for two years going on three. I have also studied

alternative medicine. I don't consider myself a doctor but rather a

teacher.

 

 

jody

 

Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a trained

psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified to offer

advice in this arena, imo.

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Concetta Curtis <starcrazed@r...> wrote:

> I have taken psychology classes. I have studied the brain and

> psychology in college for two years going on three. I have also

studied

> alternative medicine. I don't consider myself a doctor but rather a

> teacher.

 

That's all well and good Concetta. However, I don't believe that

makes you qualified to offer psychiatric advice. Just my opinion,

throw it over the fence or in the trash if you don't agree.

 

--jody.

>

>

> jody

>

> Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a trained

> psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified to offer

> advice in this arena, imo.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, jody wrote:

> advaitin , <anurag@s...> wrote:

> >

> > May be someone must have asked if Shree Ramkrishna Paramhansa

> possesses a

> > degree from a qualified university to make a Swami Vivekananda out

> of

> > Narendra.

>

> There are no degrees for gurus, but certainly for psychologists,

> especially when dealing with the disease of depression.

>

> There are spiritual endeavors, and psychological ones. The

> spiritual endeavors should be guided by gurus and teachers,

> but the psychological ones are best left to those who are

> trained to deal with them, the psychologists.

>

> Narendra's transformation to Vivekananda was primarily a

> spiritual endeavor, with some psychological overtones.

>

> Depression is most certainly a psychological/psychiatric

> issue, which gurus and spiritual teachers are not very

> well equipped to deal with, imo.

>

> --jody.

>

 

 

Jody i beg to differ i would rather say that spiritual teachers are the

only perfect ones to deal with psychological issues. they know where all

mind can get caught up. They know the powers of mind. They know what

mind can do. They know how does this complex of body mind, Parna and

spirit acts in harmony with resoect to each of its constituents.

They know the persons mind to the extent of dating back to many previous

lives.

 

Thats why they are the best available Psychological teachers.

 

 

Who are psychologists someone who know hoe humans behave and in what

manner. the extent to which psychologists know about mind and its relation

to body, prana and spirit is like a drop in an ocean.

 

 

Any sensible person progressing on the path of Spirituality can't help but

pity Freud.

 

 

love,

Anurag

 

> >

> > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, jody wrote:

> >

> > > advaitin , Concetta Curtis <starcrazed@r...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > [snip]

> > >

> > > Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a trained

> > > psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified to offer

> > > advice in this arena, imo.

> > >

[Guest guest]

advaitin , <anurag@s...> wrote:

 

[snip]

> Jody i beg to differ i would rather say that spiritual teachers are

the

> only perfect ones to deal with psychological issues. they know

where all

> mind can get caught up. They know the powers of mind. They know what

> mind can do. They know how does this complex of body mind, Parna and

> spirit acts in harmony with resoect to each of its constituents.

> They know the persons mind to the extent of dating back to many

previous

> lives.

>

> Thats why they are the best available Psychological teachers.

>

>

> Who are psychologists someone who know hoe humans behave and in what

> manner. the extent to which psychologists know about mind and its

relation

> to body, prana and spirit is like a drop in an ocean.

>

>

> Any sensible person progressing on the path of Spirituality can't

help but

> pity Freud.

>

>

> love,

> Anurag

 

Fair enough Anurag. However, I disagree with your assertion entirely.

That is, spiritual teachers, while knowing of the inherent tendencies

of mind, are for the most part culturally ignorant. Psychologists

are much better equipped to understand the underlying socio-cultural

issues underlying psychological difficulty, and psychiatrists are most

definitely better equipped to understand the biochemical basis and

treatment of depression.

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, jody wrote:

> advaitin , <anurag@s...> wrote:

>

> [snip]

>

> > Jody i beg to differ i would rather say that spiritual teachers are

> the

> > only perfect ones to deal with psychological issues. they know

> where all

> > mind can get caught up. They know the powers of mind. They know what

> > mind can do. They know how does this complex of body mind, Parna and

> > spirit acts in harmony with resoect to each of its constituents.

> > They know the persons mind to the extent of dating back to many

> previous

> > lives.

> >

> > Thats why they are the best available Psychological teachers.

> >

> >

> > Who are psychologists someone who know hoe humans behave and in what

> > manner. the extent to which psychologists know about mind and its

> relation

> > to body, prana and spirit is like a drop in an ocean.

> >

> >

> > Any sensible person progressing on the path of Spirituality can't

> help but

> > pity Freud.

> >

> >

> > love,

> > Anurag

>

> Fair enough Anurag. However, I disagree with your assertion entirely.

> That is, spiritual teachers, while knowing of the inherent tendencies

> of mind, are for the most part culturally ignorant. Psychologists

> are much better equipped to understand the underlying socio-cultural

> issues underlying psychological difficulty,

 

Thats why the enlightened ones or the so called incarnations of Lord has

always lived in society. For these can be helped by living they live and

their problems can be better understood by living in a society.

> and psychiatrists are most

> definitely better equipped to understand the biochemical basis and

> treatment of depression.

>

> --jody.

 

 

Any medicine that comes in market has lot of politics, petty issues of

money and all behind it and along with it bring many side effects.

 

None of the bio-chemists can claim that they know brain-mind. Incomplete

knowledge is the most dangerous of all.

 

love,

Anurag

[Guest guest]

Hari Om Concettaji:

 

Namasthe,

 

It is really nice of you to take your time to look for

an alternative approach instead of addictive drugs.

The best alternative medicine for your friend is good

conversation with a friend like you.

 

I am quite touched by your humility while expressing

your impressive background in Psychology and

alternative medicine. Doctors get more patients and

they possess less patience. On the otherhand, teachers

have more patience and no patients! You should feel

happy that you are a teacher than a doctor!

 

I am quite confident that you will be able to help

your friend appropriately. Your demonstrated knowledge

indicate that you will not hesitate to go to a trained

psychiatrist if that is what needed.

 

Wish you all the best,

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

Concetta Curtis wrote:

> I have taken psychology classes. I have studied the

> brain and

> psychology in college for two years going on three.

> I have also studied

> alternative medicine. I don't consider myself a

> doctor but rather a

> teacher.

>

>

> jody

>

> Leave this for the professionals. Unless you are a

> trained

> psychologist or psychiatrist, you aren't qualified

> to offer

> advice in this arena, imo.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Jody

 

Sorry....I beg to differ. My sister was suffering from depression 6 months

ago. Psychologists and psychiatrists were of no help as they kept

prescribing anti-depressents and she finally ended up in a psychiatric ward.

I lost faith in those medication that makes the brain less active and I am

not in a position to comment on the doctors either. The only thing that

helped her was our good old advaitic counselling. She was told to drop the

medication immediately and think about certain ideas about oneself. She

started meditating as well. In a matter of 2 weeks, she was back on her

feet again. In one month she was perfectly ok. Now she's happily on a

pilgrimage to Bharat.

>From my experience I would say that Vedanta TOO can help a person under

depression. Let us not discount that possibility.

 

Sincerely,

Kathi

>

> jody [sMTP:jodyr]

> Friday, June 09, 2000 8:28 AM

> advaitin

> Re: Depression

>

> advaitin , <anurag@s...> wrote:

>

> [snip]

>

> > Jody i beg to differ i would rather say that spiritual teachers are

> the

> > only perfect ones to deal with psychological issues. they know

> where all

> > mind can get caught up. They know the powers of mind. They know what

> > mind can do. They know how does this complex of body mind, Parna and

> > spirit acts in harmony with resoect to each of its constituents.

> > They know the persons mind to the extent of dating back to many

> previous

> > lives.

> >

> > Thats why they are the best available Psychological teachers.

> >

> >

> > Who are psychologists someone who know hoe humans behave and in what

> > manner. the extent to which psychologists know about mind and its

> relation

> > to body, prana and spirit is like a drop in an ocean.

> >

> >

> > Any sensible person progressing on the path of Spirituality can't

> help but

> > pity Freud.

> >

> >

> > love,

> > Anurag

>

> Fair enough Anurag. However, I disagree with your assertion entirely.

> That is, spiritual teachers, while knowing of the inherent tendencies

> of mind, are for the most part culturally ignorant. Psychologists

> are much better equipped to understand the underlying socio-cultural

> issues underlying psychological difficulty, and psychiatrists are most

> definitely better equipped to understand the biochemical basis and

> treatment of depression.

>

> --jody.

>

>

>

> ------

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> Sign up for a free account with eGroups' PayPal.

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>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan@m...>

wrote:

 

[snip]

 

Thanks Kathi, that's a great story, and it's wonderful that

it worked out so well. It perhaps indicates that we as

a society should look for spiritual solutions rather than

finding the quick fix. I suppose it's the secular nature

of our society that's to blame in part.

 

However, I don't think you can make the case that this

will work everytime. I'm personally acquainted with folk

that have been helped tremendously by anti-depressants, in

both their secular and spiritual life. I agree that it is

much more preferable to rely on the spiritual rather than

the chemical, but there are many cases where the former just

isn't effective and the latter becomes the proper course.

 

I'm not sure where Concetta's friend would fall, but I

suppose it's better to try without first. That is

provided that the alternatives prove to be effective without

too much delay.

 

If the alternatives don't prove effective, then there is

the option of the chemical route, which should probably

be seriously considered at that point, despite the ideological

stance of those who seek to help.

 

Take care and thanks again.

 

--jody.

 

[snip]

[Guest guest]

Concetta wrote:

> Depression is a state of mind. Drugs suppress this state of mind, but

> do not cure the problem. Unfortunately, the same mind that causes this

 

Greetings!

 

I have an experience where a mere chance exposure to listening to

melodious music in praise and worship of the Divine immediately

uplifted my mood.

 

Those who drown their complete attention in the song or music and

shift to a devotional conciousness or mind set will inevitably feel the

Ananda or Bliss and get the depression removed.

 

It feels like carrying heavy things on your back for miles then, suddenly

dropping it, then you grow wings and start flying freely into space

upwards into a garden or beach etc. with wonderful weather (cool) and

full of freshness and goodness (incl good thoughts). All your burdens

are momentarily lifted by the mighty Divine wings until your mind

returns back from Ananda to mAya.

 

 

 

--

Warmest regards,

Ruben

ruben

_____________

The Lord will be watching with a thousand eyes the least activity of man to

discover any slight trace of selfless love sweetening it.

-Sathya Sai Baba.

Hatred sprouts; Envy raises its hood.

Love sprouts; Peace descends like dew.

-Sathya Sai Baba.