Is someone a jIvan-mukta?

June 8, 2000

There is a discussion going on if Bhagavan Paramahansa Ramakrishna is a

Jivanmukta or not - In stead of answering directly with reference to a

particular individual let me paraphrase the question of how do we know or

can judge if someone is a jivanmukta or not?

Prof. VK has addressed the question to a great extent. In my last article

I have discussed the state of Jivanmukta. In summary the state of

Jivanmukta is a state of understanding that who one is or who the Lord is,

since the Advaita being non-duality of the nature of the reality, both

understandings are the same. Essentially it is the state of mind and there

are no more notions about oneself as I am this or that etc.

No one knows others state of mind - all one can see are the grosser

manifestations of ones understanding of oneself. Hence when Arjuna asked

how does a Jivanmukta behaves or acts, Krishna in his very first statement

says:

prajahaati yadaa kaaman sarvan partha manogataan|

atmanyeva atmanaa tushTaH sthitapraJNastadochyate||

In a nut shell - his actions are no more propelled by 'ego-centric' desires

- sarvaan kamaan prajahaati - essentially all ego-centric desires are

dissolved at the alter of the 'Self' - the reason is, he is - atmanyeva

atmanaa tushTaH - he revels in himself by himself - He is 'self-fulfilled'

- Since all the kaamya karma-s or desire prompted actions are only to gain

happiness and since he already has overflowing happiness - the necessity

for him to go after fulfilling any desires is not there.

Since I cannot judge his state of mind all I can see are the external

actions manifested through his equipments and even those I can not judge

whether they are -' ego-centric' or not. One alone knows the motivating

forces behind ones actions. But in principle other can see - if the other

has a degree of the purity of the mind - that all his actions are driven by

universal love since he cannot but love and pour out that love. In fact He

alone can love since he does not expect anything in return for his owns

self. Since there is nothing for him to gain - He can only give - He can

only give since He is overflowingly full - As Bhagavan Ramana says - his

nature is 'paramam, puurnam and sat swaruupam'. Hence there is no iota of

selfishness in his actions. (this does not mean that others cannot see or

judge selfishness in his actions - that depends on the mental state of the

judging people!) But even to see that the evaluator should have a frame of

mind which is pure and selfless. It is the experience of all of us that it

takes years to understand other persons particularly their motivations

behind the actions and most of the time we misjudge others.

Bottom line is one cannot evaluate who is Jivanmukta? The milestones that

Krishna gives and Acharyas have given are not meant to evaluate others but

to evaluate ones owns self - how far one has gone in the path of

self-realization.

A student cannot fully evaluate a teacher if he is realized or not - hence

Shankara emphasizes this fact in the very beginning of VivekachuuDamani

that it is only by the grace of God that one is driven to a particular

teacher that can impart the requisite knowledge.

durlabham trayamevaitad devaanugraha hetukam|

manushyatvam mumukshutvam mahaapurusha samsrayaH||

The three things are difficult to gain and it is only by the grace of God

that one gains theses - birth as a human being, intensive desire for

liberation and the association with a great master.

A student after staying for a long time with the teacher, understands his

teacher and begins to develop his faith in the teacher and his teaching. -

Because faith as Shankara defines - shastrasya guruvaakyasya shraddhaa -

(faith in the scriptures and teacher's words or faith in the scriptures as

interpreted by the teacher). Similarly after long association with the

student the teacher also will have grasp of the capability of the student -

whether he is fit to receive the knowledge or not. Ultimately it is the

students faith in that teacher and the teacher's words that will take Him

beyond. Nisargadatta Maharaja exemplifies this faith.

When Swami Chinmayanandaji was asked by someone, if Swamiji has realized -

his answer was - 'it is none of your business' - rightly, whether he

answered yes or no, it ultimately rests on questioner's faith to accept the

answer or reject it - he has no true means to judge whether the answer is

correct or not, and if has the means then the question becomes unnecessary.

My sincere advise is not to evaluate others teachers whether they have

realized or not -First it is a useless evaluation since one cannot evaluate

others and also it will be a greatest disservice to those who have faith in

that teacher. Evaluate your own teacher till you are satisfied in order to

develop a strong faith in him. Then only the teaching will be fulfilling.

Without that faith, it is impossible for one to evolve.

Hari Om!

Sadananda

>Let me preface this statement and assure all that I believe

>Ramakrishna to be one of the greatest saints of the modern era.

>That said, here is an excerpt from your post:

>

> No recollection of the past, no thinking of the

> future, and indifference to the present because of

> non-attachment - these are the qualities of this

> jIvan-mukta.

>

>Ramakrishna clearly had a recollection of the past, as he

>told many stories of his youth and sadhana. There were times

>when he was concerned that people were getting the wrong idea

>about him. He was also clearly anguished when Vivekananda,

>(then known as Narendra), didn't come around to see him.

>

>I'm not denying Ramakrishna's status as an Incarnation or

>Jivanmukti. The point I'm trying to make is that even

>Jivanmuktis are human, and they behave as all humans do.

>

>This isn't to deny Sankara either, just to state that there

>are exceptions to every rule. Most importantly though, is

>the fact that when we take a human body, we must accept the

>frailties it brings. Everyone in a body, dacoit or saint,

>is subject to the human condition.

>

>--jody.

>

>[snip]

>

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K. Sadananda

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June 8, 2000

I agree.

I think all of us are intelligent enough to know if WE OURSELVES are

enlightened or not. Splitting hairs on WHO ELSE is enlightened or not and

WHY (because of what properties) they ARE or ARE NOT enlightened is a

discussion without utility.

By doing that we will only be doing a disservice to people who have faith in

a certain teacher.