Was Ramakrishna a jIvan-mukta?

[Guest guest]

Here is a verse from Sankara's Sivananda-lahari (Verse No.81), and

this verse is enough to declare that Ramakrishna was indeed a

jIvan-mukta. The verse seems to fit in with Ramakrishna so well

that it appears that the verse and Ramakrishna were made for each

other!

 

kamcit-kAlam-umA-maheSa bhavataH pAdAravind-ArcanaiH

kamcid-dhyAna-samAdhibhiSca natibhiH kamcit-kathA-karNanaiH /

kamcit-kamcid-avekshanaiSca nutibhiH kamcid-daSAm-IdRSIM

yaH prApnoti mudA tvad-arpita-manA jIvan-sa muktaH khalu //

 

Translation (by TMP Mahadevan in his book on The Hymns of

Sankara): O Consort of Uma! Sometime in worshipping thy lotus-

feet, sometime in meditation and concentration, sometime in

offering obeisance, sometime in listening to (Thy) stories,

sometime in looking at (Thy) form, sometime in singing (Thy)

praise - he who gains such a state in exultation, having

surrendered his mind to Thee, is verily a jIvan-mukta!

 

Readers would also agree, I hope, that Ramakrishna also fits in

with the detailed description (posted by me earlier) of a jIvan-

mukta given by Sankara in his viveka-cUDAmaNi .

 

praNAms to all advaitins.

Profvk

 

profvk

My two books, one on Science and Spirituality

and the other on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought, Vision and Practice,

can both be accessed at the address:

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[Guest guest]

The concept of jIvan-mukta is not a mathematical

or physical concept to allow itself of a

rigorous definition or description. The

description given by a Seer like Sankara of a

jIvan-mukta should not therefore be torn to

pieces with logic, like the clauses of a

written constitution. Thereby we would only be

doing intellectual gymnastics -- referred

to as the DuHRn-karaNe syndrome in

Bhaja-govindam. However we have Ramakrishna's

own explanation, which, though not

technically referring to the jIvan- mukta

concept, hopefully will clear the cloud of doubt

now darkening the sky of the 'advaitin'

world on the concept. I quote below from the

chapter on Keshab Chandra Sen and the Brahmo

Samaj in the book: The Life of Sri

Ramakrishna, compiled by Advaita Ashrama,

Calcutta.

He (The Master) ridiculed the attempt of the

human mind to fathom the nature of God, by

comparing it to an ant that desired to carry a

whole sugar-hill in its mouth. It is God's

Grace, he said, that leads to realisation.

There was something in the manner of his

speech that convinced Keshab that Shri

Ramakrishna must have actually seen God.

Stupefied and puzzled, Keshab Chandra, the

high priest of the Brahmo cult, felt like a

child before this man of realisation and

listened to him with the utmost reverence. He

opened the doors of his heart, and every word

uttered by the Master found a permanent niche

there. At the end of the discourse the Master

said to Keshab, "Your tail has dropped".

Finding that the audience did not understand

him, he explained: (and this explanation is

what we need now):

"You must have seen tadpoles. So long as they

have tails, they must live in water; but when

they drop off they can live on land as well

as in water. Similarly, so long as a man has his

tail of nescience, he can live only in the

pool of the world. But as soon as he loses his

nescience, he can live in God or in the world

just as he pleases. Your mind, Keshab, is in

such a state now. You can live in the world,

and enjoy divine bliss as well."

Such is the state of a jIvan-mukta like

Ramakrishna. He can live in his own world of

eternal bliss and he can also descend to the

level of the mundane world in which we live

and tell us to wake up from our

worldly-dreams. This is the greatness of a sage

like Sankara or a Ramakrishna. To our good

fortune, they condescended to come down to

our level and tell us what it is to live in the

spiritual world of bliss. Just because such a

great person lives, talks and walks like us,

we should not mistake him to have the human

frailties that are common to an ordinary

human leader of men. We may as well recall the

words of the Lord Himself, in this connection:

avyaktaM vyaktim-ApannaM manyante mAm-

abuddhayaH /

paraM bhAvam-ajAnanto mamA-vyayam-anuttamaM //

(VII - 24)

meaning,

The foolish think of Me, the Unmanifest, as

having come to manifestation, not knowing My

higher, immutable and peerless nature.

There have been other great jIvan-muktas, like

Sadasiva Brahmendra - to quote one example -

with whom we have not been so fortunate to get

tons and tons of spiritual advice as we got

from a Sankara or a Ramakrishna. Sadasiva

Brahmendra however has given a masterly

description of a jIvan-mukta, which befits the

description of himself and his activities so

well (and this was written in his early life)

that we may take it that he must have held it

as his role-model. The description occurs in his

book called Atma-vidyA- vilAsa, a composition

in 62 verses, almost forming a spiritual

autobiography. Ten verses from this have been

translated by me in my account of Sadasiva in

 

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/sadasiva.html

 

praNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

The simplified URL of my website on Science and Spirituality is

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can also access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice from the same address.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hari Om Profvk:

 

Pranams,

 

Beautifully said!

 

As one of the comoderators of this list let me post

this article which will hopefully steer our debates in

the right direction.

 

When the subject matter of discussion focuses on

merits or demerits of religious scriptures such

discussions are likely to develop an Intellectual

Crisis. Intellectual Crisis always brings chaos and

utter confusion. Instead of focusing on the

philosophical issues, such debates centered on the

abilities of the debaters. Debaters seem to forget

that the theme of Advaita is to subdue ego and engage

in rekindling ego! At some threshold point it is

necessary for the intellect to bow down to faith and

intuition. It is intellectually arrogant for anyone

to believe that a conclusive position has been reached

and there will be no disagreement whatsoever. None of

us can ever claim that we have completely understood

our scriptures and the philosophical and religious

dogmas that have been postulated in the past.

Hopefully, commonsense and wisdom will come to rescue

any making such claims. The claimers will sooner or

later will realize that no one believes them.

 

The debate that took place long time back between

Sankaracharya and Mandana Misra illustrates the

fundamental role of faith. Mandana Misra's wife

Bharathi (considered reincarnation of Goddess

Saraswati) was appointed as the referee. The debate

was not decided by intellectual abilities of these two

masters. Instead, the debaters were garlanded with

two identical flower garlands. These two great

intellects had the humility to bow down to faith in

the miracle of whether their respective garlands

withered away or not. The debate continued for

several weeks Sankaracharya was declared the winner by

the adjudicator, the wife of his opponent! This

episode once again illustrates the superiority of

faith and intuition over intellectual ability. Faith

and Intuition are parts of Hindu tradition and Advaita

is no exception.

 

It is also true that any interpretation of scriptures

and religion is based on faith and intuition. Faith

and intuition varies by individuals and hence there

will be always disagreements. Such disagreements do no

prove that a religion or dogma is wrong! It only

confirms the famous quotation in the Upanishads: "The

more we know, we realize that more we don't know!"

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

===========================

 

"V. Krishnamurthy" wrote:

> The concept of jIvan-mukta is not a mathematical

> or physical concept to allow itself of a

> rigorous definition or description. The

> description given by a Seer like Sankara of a

> jIvan-mukta should not therefore be torn to

> pieces with logic, like the clauses of a

> written constitution.

[Guest guest]

"V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> The description occurs in his

> book called Atma-vidyA- vilAsa, a composition

> in 62 verses, almost forming a spiritual

> autobiography. Ten verses from this have been

> translated by me in my account of Sadasiva in

>

> http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/sadasiva.html

 

Dear Prof. Krishnamurthy and other list members,

 

It is always very uplifting to read about the great Yogi, Sri

Sadasiva Brahmendral. His adhishThAna at Nerur is a wonderful spot. I

would just like to comment upon a couple of historical points.

 

His guru, Sri Paramasivendra Saraswati, wrote Dahara-Vidya-Prakasika.

In this work, there is a verse that says that he wrote it at the

request of one of his disciples, Tryambaka Raya Makhin. It is well

known that Tryambaka Raya Makhin was a minister of the Maratha rulers

of Tanjavur in the latter part of the *17th* century, i.e. around the

year 1675. This is well after the time of Tirumala Nayaka in Madurai.

Indeed, by the time the Marathas ruled in the south, the Nayaka

dynasties had all declined. Tryambaka Raya Makhin wrote a condensed

version of the Ramayana in very beautiful Sanskrit verses, from which

we have further confirmation of the late 17th century date. It is,

therefore, not surprising that we hear of Sadasiva Brahmendral being

contemporary with well known personalities of the early 18th century.

Consequently, the dates given for Paramasivendra Saraswati, in the

1500s, are simply not acceptable, from what his own writings and

those of his disciples convey. There is indeed no necessity for

saying that Sadasiva Brahmendral lived for more than 200 years. One

remains in the body only so long as prArabdha karma operates. Many

great Yogis leave their bodies at rather young ages, without it

taking away from their greatness in any way.

 

Best regards,

Vidyasankar

[Guest guest]

Sri Vidyasankarji,

Thanks for the posting on Sadasiva Brahmendral. I stand corrected

on the historical points.

praNAms to all advaitins,

profvk

Prof.V. Krishnamurthy

My two books, one on Science and Spirituality

and the other on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought, Vision and Practice,

can both be accessed at the address:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

 

 

 

Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

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