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>From Ananta

 

 

If the effect is the cause reproduced, the question is: "How is it

that we find this material, dull, unintelligent universe produced

from a God, who is not material, but who is eternal intelligence?

How, if the cau.se is pure and perfect, can the effect be quite

different?" What do these qualified non-dualists say ? Theirs is a

very peculiar theory. They say that these three existences, God,

nature, and the Soul, are one.

 

from a lecture by Swami Vivekananda...

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>>From Ananta

>

>

>If the effect is the cause reproduced, the question is: "How is it

>that we find this material, dull, unintelligent universe produced

>from a God, who is not material, but who is eternal intelligence?

>How, if the cau.se is pure and perfect, can the effect be quite

>different?" What do these qualified non-dualists say ? Theirs is a

>very peculiar theory. They say that these three existences, God,

>nature, and the Soul, are one.

>

>from a lecture by Swami Vivekananda...

>

 

This is the fundamental question that is addressed by all aachaaryaa-s.

There is a conscious entity and there is unconscious entity - the matter.

and that is our direct experience. Once we conclude that this is a

creation, and the creator obviously a 'conscious and intelligent entity' ,

naturally a question has to be addressed in terms of how an conscious

intelligent entity creates unconscious inert entity. If the effect is

nothing but cause itself in a different form then effect cannot be

different from the cause - if it is appears to be different then it is only

an appearance and the difference is not real, even if it appears to be

real- Hence one has to go into details of what constitutes reality,

experience and why unreal appears to be real, etc.

 

If on the other hand one separates the factors for creation - the

intelligent cause and the material cause as two distinctly separate

entities and are primordial, then one need not violate the cause-effect

relationships and dismiss the direct experience of the difference between

the conscious entities and inert entities as only apparent and not real.

 

Hence Ramanuja and Madva emphasized the fact that the differences -

1)difference between jiiva and jiiva, 2) differences between jiiva and

prakriti, 3) differences between jiiva and iswara and 4) differences

between prakriti and iswara and 5) difference in the prakriti - are real

and universally experienced. Hence we have three satyam-s - Iswara,

Jiiva-s and Prakriti which are eternal and not created. Hence there is no

violation of the cause-effect relations. Then what is creation - Creation

is the grossification of the subtler aspects. Prakriti and jiivas exist in

subtler forms before creation. Out of compassion the Lord, Iswara who has

the Lordship over these two factors as well as posses all the powers

including the power to create through his maaya shakti - makes the

grossification feasible.

 

He being all powerful, with all auspicious qualities, pervades the other

two factors Jiva-s and prakriti - yet is not affected by them. Iswara as

SaguNa Brahman naturally comes out from this and plurality as reality is

emphasized. Oneness in the VishishhTaadvaita or qualified monoism

emphasizes the oneness in terms of the Universal person (as emphasized in

Purusha suuktam)- with jiiva-s and prakriti forming his body, he being the

soul which is different from the body yet one with the body - this is the

vishishhTa adviata aspect as emphasized in the 11th chapter of B.Geeta -

Just as space is different from the matter yet space pervades the matter

accommodating the matter in itself. Jiiva can never be Brahman but he is

part of the Brahman since he can never be away from Brahman.

 

The logic is self-consistent with the axioms that the differences are real

as we experience. Ramanuja emphasizes it is consistent with Vedas and

Brahmasuutra-s and of course B. Geeta.

 

Madva (Dvaita philosophy) goes little bit extreme to claim that there are

eternally good souls as well as eternally bad souls (Rakshasaa-s) and their

is a hierarchy in the souls and one can become sat chit ananda but fullness

of one's ananda (quantity) is different from other jiiva, just as there are

different size vessels. Even though each one is full their contents differ

due to their intrinsic size differences. Some jiivas will end up with

eternal damnation since that is their intrinsic nature.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

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Sadanandaji,

 

I don't understand, are you subscribing to the

VishishTadvaita standpoint versus the Adwaita

view of manifestation ?

I agree each view has it's relative validity.

 

As for me I don't really have any views, I'm lost in

the Unknowable, utter Ignorance!

I have realised there is no model for anything - just a dynamic

Mystery unfolding moment to moment, in which all sorts

of incredible and wonderful things happen.

 

Regards

~dave

 

-

K. Sadananda

advaitin

Wednesday, June 21, 2000 12:20 PM

Re: Qualified non-dualism

 

>>From Ananta

>

>

>If the effect is the cause reproduced, the question is: "How is it

>that we find this material, dull, unintelligent universe produced

>from a God, who is not material, but who is eternal intelligence?

>How, if the cau.se is pure and perfect, can the effect be quite

>different?" What do these qualified non-dualists say ? Theirs is a

>very peculiar theory. They say that these three existences, God,

>nature, and the Soul, are one.

>

>from a lecture by Swami Vivekananda...

>

 

This is the fundamental question that is addressed by all aachaaryaa-s.

There is a conscious entity and there is unconscious entity - the matter.

and that is our direct experience. Once we conclude that this is a

creation, and the creator obviously a 'conscious and intelligent entity' ,

naturally a question has to be addressed in terms of how an conscious

intelligent entity creates unconscious inert entity. If the effect is

nothing but cause itself in a different form then effect cannot be

different from the cause - if it is appears to be different then it is only

an appearance and the difference is not real, even if it appears to be

real- Hence one has to go into details of what constitutes reality,

experience and why unreal appears to be real, etc.

 

If on the other hand one separates the factors for creation - the

intelligent cause and the material cause as two distinctly separate

entities and are primordial, then one need not violate the cause-effect

relationships and dismiss the direct experience of the difference between

the conscious entities and inert entities as only apparent and not real.

 

Hence Ramanuja and Madva emphasized the fact that the differences -

1)difference between jiiva and jiiva, 2) differences between jiiva and

prakriti, 3) differences between jiiva and iswara and 4) differences

between prakriti and iswara and 5) difference in the prakriti - are real

and universally experienced. Hence we have three satyam-s - Iswara,

Jiiva-s and Prakriti which are eternal and not created. Hence there is no

violation of the cause-effect relations. Then what is creation - Creation

is the grossification of the subtler aspects. Prakriti and jiivas exist in

subtler forms before creation. Out of compassion the Lord, Iswara who has

the Lordship over these two factors as well as posses all the powers

including the power to create through his maaya shakti - makes the

grossification feasible.

 

He being all powerful, with all auspicious qualities, pervades the other

two factors Jiva-s and prakriti - yet is not affected by them. Iswara as

SaguNa Brahman naturally comes out from this and plurality as reality is

emphasized. Oneness in the VishishhTaadvaita or qualified monoism

emphasizes the oneness in terms of the Universal person (as emphasized in

Purusha suuktam)- with jiiva-s and prakriti forming his body, he being the

soul which is different from the body yet one with the body - this is the

vishishhTa adviata aspect as emphasized in the 11th chapter of B.Geeta -

Just as space is different from the matter yet space pervades the matter

accommodating the matter in itself. Jiiva can never be Brahman but he is

part of the Brahman since he can never be away from Brahman.

 

The logic is self-consistent with the axioms that the differences are real

as we experience. Ramanuja emphasizes it is consistent with Vedas and

Brahmasuutra-s and of course B. Geeta.

 

Madva (Dvaita philosophy) goes little bit extreme to claim that there are

eternally good souls as well as eternally bad souls (Rakshasaa-s) and their

is a hierarchy in the souls and one can become sat chit ananda but fullness

of one's ananda (quantity) is different from other jiiva, just as there are

different size vessels. Even though each one is full their contents differ

due to their intrinsic size differences. Some jiivas will end up with

eternal damnation since that is their intrinsic nature.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are

available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To from the

list, send Email to <advaitin- > For other contact, Email

to <advaitins

 

 

 

 

 

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Namaste,

 

I guess this is a very interesting topic, so I would appreciate

if anyone could be kind enough to make comments or

develop this last paragraph from K. Sadananda in more details.

 

Thanks in advance to all.

 

Hari Om

 

Lalitha

K. Sadananda

advaitin

Sent on: Quarta-feira, 21 de Junho de 2000 13:20

Re: Qualified non-dualism

 

Madva (Dvaita philosophy) goes little bit extreme to claim that there are

eternally good souls as well as eternally bad souls (Rakshasaa-s) and their

is a hierarchy in the souls and one can become sat chit ananda but fullness

of one's ananda (quantity) is different from other jiiva, just as there are

different size vessels. Even though each one is full their contents differ

due to their intrinsic size differences. Some jiivas will end up with

eternal damnation since that is their intrinsic nature.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

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Namaste,

 

Shiva's Tandava Dance

 

or The Dancing Wu Li Masters

 

or The Dance of the Dervishes ?!

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

>f maiello <egodust

>advaitin

>advaitin

>Re: Qualified non-dualism

>Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:26:40 -0700 (PDT)

>

>

>

>--- Dave Sirjue <dsirju wrote:

> > I agree each view has it's relative validity.

> >

> > As for me I don't really have any views, I'm lost

> > in the Unknowable, utter Ignorance!

> > I have realised there is no model for anything -

> > just a dynamic

> > Mystery unfolding moment to moment, in which all

> > sorts of incredible and wonderful things happen.

> >

>

>........gotta have some gaul tossin' a

>random zen grenade of pure Light

>in the midst of our List like that..

>

>beautiful.

>

>we may as well all start livin' like

>there's no tomorrow......

>what's stopping us??!

>(especially since there isn't one anyway!)

>

>om svaha!

>

>

>

>Send instant messages with Messenger.

>http://im./

 

______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

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--- Dave Sirjue <dsirju wrote:

> I agree each view has it's relative validity.

>

> As for me I don't really have any views, I'm lost

> in the Unknowable, utter Ignorance!

> I have realised there is no model for anything -

> just a dynamic

> Mystery unfolding moment to moment, in which all

> sorts of incredible and wonderful things happen.

>

 

.........gotta have some gaul tossin' a

random zen grenade of pure Light

in the midst of our List like that..

 

beautiful.

 

we may as well all start livin' like

there's no tomorrow......

what's stopping us??!

(especially since there isn't one anyway!)

 

om svaha!

 

 

 

Send instant messages with Messenger.

http://im./

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Guest guest

> Sadanandaji,

>

> I don't understand, are you subscribing to the

> VishishTadvaita standpoint versus the Adwaita

> view of manifestation ?

> I agree each view has it's relative validity.

>

> As for me I don't really have any views, I'm lost in

> the Unknowable, utter Ignorance!

> I have realised there is no model for anything - just a dynamic

> Mystery unfolding moment to moment, in which all sorts

> of incredible and wonderful things happen.

>

> Regards

> ~dave

 

Dave - my subscription to a particular philosophy is immaterial in

examining the merits and short falls of a particular model. Actually in

your statement above after 'there is no model for anything - just a dynamic

.....' - your are in a way presenting a model that your intellect is

satisfied with. A rational intellect cannot but question until it is

satisfied so that faith can take it to the next step that is beyond the

intellectual comprehension. Otherwise it can not pass the fist step.

Advaita, VishishhTaadviata and Dvaita etc. are only descriptive models of

the state which is beyond, using Vedas, Brahmasuutra and B.Geeta as the

basis for PramaaNa. They provide logically self-consistent, and

believably consistent with the scriptural declarations. What I discussed

is essentially how the models explain the creation or existence of what we

see and experience everyday - presence of conscious beings and unconscious

matter. Who am I, Where did I come from and What is this world, and Why

this vast overpowering world come to existence and why I am forced to deal

with during my day to day transactions - from eating to breathing to

sleeping etc. are questions an inquiry mind has to face in one form or the

other. These question are relevant to the inquiry deep within of the

nature of reality or of the nature of myself. Bhakti can take us to some

extent if Bhakta can completely and unconditionally surrender at the alter

of Bhakti where manifested duality merges into one - The same state is also

reached by an honest inquiry into the reality of the life. Extensive

analysis and hair-splitting arguments have been presented by aachaaryaas

and they provide a means to inquire within, if one is not bogged down by

the sectarian attitudes. Comments and criticisms of by Bhagavan

Ramanuja's and Shree Vedanta Deshika and Shree Jayathiirtha etc. of Advaita

philosophy, actually can help an adviatine to understand the Advaita

philosophy better, provided on has a strong analytical mind to inquire into

nature of the reality using these arguments and counter arguments. They

can channel for the mind to see the truth in ones own way without getting

tied up by a particular philosophical approaches. Ultimately the truth -

does not depend on what Shankara says or Ramanuja says or Madhva says but

what one discovers by oneself in oneself as oneself. These are all tools

or channels for the mind to go beyond to discover the truth eachone in

their own way.

 

Your statement, the 'dynamic mystery unfolding moment to moment' is very

poetic while being factual. Unfolding in front of me due to the powers

unknown to me is mystification of the unfoldment with the mind sublimed at

the source of that power that is beyond with admiration and wonder is

Bhakti and understanding that power is not different from the witnessing

consciousness with myself as the center of both folding and unfolding of

this witnessing and witnessed is the true knowledge of the self.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

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Hi Dave-ji and Sadananda-ji,

 

If I know Sadananda-ji, he was not *subscribing* to qualified non-dualism,

but rather simply *explaining certain points* about it. When someone

explains a philosophy in a skillful, charitable, balanced manner, it can

actually look like that person is advocating or subscribing to that

philosophy. The purpose of a philosophy finally is not advocacy, but

rather the cessation of ignorance and intellectual grasping. A philosophy

is a ladder that is scaled, then falls away.

 

Om!

 

--Greg

 

 

At 07:17 AM 6/22/00 -0400, K. Sadananda wrote:

>> Sadanandaji,

>>

>> I don't understand, are you subscribing to the

>> VishishTadvaita standpoint versus the Adwaita

>> view of manifestation ?

>> I agree each view has it's relative validity.

>>

>> As for me I don't really have any views, I'm lost in

>> the Unknowable, utter Ignorance!

>> I have realised there is no model for anything - just a dynamic

>> Mystery unfolding moment to moment, in which all sorts

>> of incredible and wonderful things happen.

>>

>> Regards

>> ~dave

>

>Dave - my subscription to a particular philosophy is immaterial in

>examining the merits and short falls of a particular model. Actually in

>your statement above after 'there is no model for anything - just a dynamic

>....' - your are in a way presenting a model that your intellect is

>satisfied with. A rational intellect cannot but question until it is

>satisfied so that faith can take it to the next step that is beyond the

>intellectual comprehension. Otherwise it can not pass the fist step.

>Advaita, VishishhTaadviata and Dvaita etc. are only descriptive models of

>the state which is beyond, using Vedas, Brahmasuutra and B.Geeta as the

>basis for PramaaNa. They provide logically self-consistent, and

>believably consistent with the scriptural declarations. What I discussed

>is essentially how the models explain the creation or existence of what we

>see and experience everyday - presence of conscious beings and unconscious

>matter. Who am I, Where did I come from and What is this world, and Why

>this vast overpowering world come to existence and why I am forced to deal

>with during my day to day transactions - from eating to breathing to

>sleeping etc. are questions an inquiry mind has to face in one form or the

>other. These question are relevant to the inquiry deep within of the

>nature of reality or of the nature of myself. Bhakti can take us to some

>extent if Bhakta can completely and unconditionally surrender at the alter

>of Bhakti where manifested duality merges into one - The same state is also

>reached by an honest inquiry into the reality of the life. Extensive

>analysis and hair-splitting arguments have been presented by aachaaryaas

>and they provide a means to inquire within, if one is not bogged down by

>the sectarian attitudes. Comments and criticisms of by Bhagavan

>Ramanuja's and Shree Vedanta Deshika and Shree Jayathiirtha etc. of Advaita

>philosophy, actually can help an adviatine to understand the Advaita

>philosophy better, provided on has a strong analytical mind to inquire into

>nature of the reality using these arguments and counter arguments. They

>can channel for the mind to see the truth in ones own way without getting

>tied up by a particular philosophical approaches. Ultimately the truth -

>does not depend on what Shankara says or Ramanuja says or Madhva says but

>what one discovers by oneself in oneself as oneself. These are all tools

>or channels for the mind to go beyond to discover the truth eachone in

>their own way.

>

>Your statement, the 'dynamic mystery unfolding moment to moment' is very

>poetic while being factual. Unfolding in front of me due to the powers

>unknown to me is mystification of the unfoldment with the mind sublimed at

>the source of that power that is beyond with admiration and wonder is

>Bhakti and understanding that power is not different from the witnessing

>consciousness with myself as the center of both folding and unfolding of

>this witnessing and witnessed is the true knowledge of the self.

>

>Hari Om!

>Sadananda

>

>

>

>

>K. Sadananda

>Code 6323

>Naval Research Laboratory

>Washington D.C. 20375

>Voice (202)767-2117

>Fax:(202)767-2623

>

>

>

>

>------

>**BELIEFNET SHOPPING** Save $20 at the Beliefnet store! Thousands of

>religious and spiritual gifts and products. Now- get $20 off purchases

>of $50 or more through July 10.

>http://click./1/5591/6/_/489436/_/961672638/

>------

>

>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To

from the list, send Email to <advaitin- > For other

contact, Email to <advaitins

>

>

>

>

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-

Gregory Goode

advaitin

Thursday, June 22, 2000 10:07 AM

Re: Qualified non-dualism

 

 

Hi Dave-ji and Sadananda-ji,

 

If I know Sadananda-ji, he was not *subscribing* to qualified non-dualism,

but rather simply *explaining certain points* about it. When someone

explains a philosophy in a skillful, charitable, balanced manner, it can

actually look like that person is advocating or subscribing to that

philosophy. The purpose of a philosophy finally is not advocacy, but

rather the cessation of ignorance and intellectual grasping. A philosophy

is a ladder that is scaled, then falls away.

 

Om!

 

--Greg

 

Hi Gregji,

 

Good to see you back on the list and thanks for your

clarification of an apparent ambiguity with

regards to Sadananda's post although he did

elucidate on similar arguments in his previous

response, and if I recall properly, he mentioned-

"That models were tools to go beyond the mind".

 

However, a major problem may arise at this stage.

The probability of transcendence is slim;instead we

remain stuck, fused to one of the rungs of the ladder.

Let me explain.

 

I've noticed many aspirants develop a type of

"spiritual" pathology by passionately clinging

and defending their intellectual "consolations"

..answers, concepts and models.

When challenged about their basic bedrock presumptions,

they usually become arrogrant, aggressive and

hostile towards the other..just look back at the

history of mankind and notice the amount of blood

shed in the defence of religious beliefs and

convictions.

 

Where has the aspiration for Tolerance, Humility,

Sincerity, Simplicity and so on.. gone ?

 

Regards

~dave

 

P.S. Thanks to Nanda's informative posting of

Madhamaka philosophy,which I believe has shed

tremendous amount of light on this same topic.

 

 

 

 

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Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for the welcome! You know, I had set my advaitin option to "no

mail" during a busy time at work. Then I forgot to set it back to the mail

option. Then I remembered, and set it back to receive mail again.

 

The problem you mention of clinging to a theory is very prevalent. From it

comes the anger, the arrogance, the hostility and the separation. It's the

old attachment to the intellect, vijnanamaya kosha. Where a view is

thought to be *the* correct or true or best one. What you point to is very

beautiful, and even as a sadhana is useful in weakining the attachment to

the intellect - developing "Tolerance, Humility, Sincerity, Simplicity."

 

Om!

 

--Greg

> Hi Gregji,

>

> Good to see you back on the list and thanks for your

> clarification of an apparent ambiguity with

> regards to Sadananda's post although he did

> elucidate on similar arguments in his previous

> response, and if I recall properly, he mentioned-

> "That models were tools to go beyond the mind".

>

> However, a major problem may arise at this stage.

> The probability of transcendence is slim;instead we

> remain stuck, fused to one of the rungs of the ladder.

> Let me explain.

>

> I've noticed many aspirants develop a type of

> "spiritual" pathology by passionately clinging

> and defending their intellectual "consolations"

> ..answers, concepts and models.

> When challenged about their basic bedrock presumptions,

> they usually become arrogrant, aggressive and

> hostile towards the other..just look back at the

> history of mankind and notice the amount of blood

> shed in the defence of religious beliefs and

> convictions.

>

> Where has the aspiration for Tolerance, Humility,

> Sincerity, Simplicity and so on.. gone ?

>

> Regards

> ~dave

>

> P.S. Thanks to Nanda's informative posting of

> Madhamaka philosophy,which I believe has shed

> tremendous amount of light on this same topic.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>------

>**BELIEFNET SHOPPING** Save $20 at the Beliefnet store! Thousands of

>religious and spiritual gifts and products. Now- get $20 off purchases

>of $50 or more through July 10.

>http://click./1/5591/6/_/489436/_/961708810/

>------

>

>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

are available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To

from the list, send Email to <advaitin- > For other

contact, Email to <advaitins

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

>Namaste,

>

>I guess this is a very interesting topic, so I would appreciate

>if anyone could be kind enough to make comments or

>develop this last paragraph from K. Sadananda in more details.

>

>Thanks in advance to all.

>

>Hari Om

>

>Lalitha

> K. Sadananda

> advaitin

> Sent on: Quarta-feira, 21 de Junho de 2000 13:20

> Re: Qualified non-dualism

>

> Madva (Dvaita philosophy) goes little bit extreme to claim that there are

> eternally good souls as well as eternally bad souls (Rakshasaa-s) and their

> is a hierarchy in the souls and one can become sat chit ananda but fullness

> of one's ananda (quantity) is different from other jiiva, just as there are

> different size vessels. Even though each one is full their contents differ

> due to their intrinsic size differences. Some jiivas will end up with

> eternal damnation since that is their intrinsic nature.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>

 

Lalithaji

 

Pranamas

 

I ended up studying Madhva Philosophy, when I was in India for an year,

while helping my Foster Son, who was a very staunch Madhvaite and was a

junior swami of Pejawar Matt, to translate a condensed version of

Jayathirtha's book 'Nyaayasudha'. The book, in two volumes, is ready for

publication. Since I am leaving to India today, I will be able answer

your query soon once I return back and establish e-mail account there.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

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-

Gregory Goode

advaitin ; advaitin

Friday, June 23, 2000 12:48 AM

Re: Qualified non-dualism

 

>It's the old attachment to the intellect, vijnanamaya kosha.

> Om!

>--Greg

 

Gregji - Thanks again for your involvement.

On a minor note, as you may be aware, there is a debate

whether the vijnanamaya kosha is really the intellect -

which some scholars say is the reasoning

part of the manomaya kosha-the mental.

The higher intuitive intelligence, the buddhi, the Vijnanamaya

kosha is said to be synonomous.

Over to the scholars..

 

~dave

 

 

 

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Hi Dave,

 

Interesting point you bring up. People debate about all kinds of things.

When wholeness is sliced up conceptually in different systems (koshas on

one hand vs. mind/emotions/intellect on the other hand) there's no reason

to expect that the various systems map perfectly to each other. E.g., the

Inuit people have more words for "white" than any other culture. I

remember many years ago, I was searching for the "correct" division of the

whole person into the various subtle and physical levels. Some systems had

a division of 3 levels, some had a division of 4, some 5, 6, 7, 49, even

172. This kind of seeking was a misunderstanding on my part. How can any

of these be "correct"?

 

Koshas don't even point to "things" in the first place. They are words

used to categorize families of experiences that are similar in some ways

and different in other ways. For example, we distinguish thinking from

feeling, and call them different koshas. But they aren't even things in

the first place. They do not exist apart from experiences. They are

conceptual categories or groups of experience. We group and distinguish

experiences because of similaries and differences. Solving a math problem

is more like learning a language than it is like experiencing pride or

fear. Nothing within the experience of the math problem identifies it as

intellectual or the function of a kosha. Nothing in the experience of fear

tells us that it is "emotional." Those labels come later, as mere

conceptual designations.

 

See ya!

 

--Greg

 

At 08:00 AM 6/23/00 -0400, Dave Sirjue wrote:

>

> -

> Gregory Goode

> advaitin ; advaitin

> Friday, June 23, 2000 12:48 AM

> Re: Qualified non-dualism

>

>

> >It's the old attachment to the intellect, vijnanamaya kosha.

> > Om!

> >--Greg

>

> Gregji - Thanks again for your involvement.

> On a minor note, as you may be aware, there is a debate

> whether the vijnanamaya kosha is really the intellect -

> which some scholars say is the reasoning

> part of the manomaya kosha-the mental.

> The higher intuitive intelligence, the buddhi, the Vijnanamaya

> kosha is said to be synonomous.

> Over to the scholars..

>

> ~dave

>

>

>

>

>

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>Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives

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