Jalaluddin Rumi - Call of advaita from Persia

[Guest guest]

Madhavaji motivated me to post any further poems which

fascinated me. So here is Jalaluddin Rumi, the great Persian

poet (1207 - 1274 A.D.). His 'Masnavi' is in six volumes and I

don't know whether a complete English translation is available.

The book has been called the Quran of the Persians. It is also

known in the west as 'The Divine Comedy' of Islam. It is in fact

a bible of the Sufis. A sufi friend drew my attention to it. Sufism

employs the language of the senses to express the spiritual

longing of the devotees for reunion with God from whom it is

believed that man is separated only by his unawareness of the

divine nature. The mystical experience to which it exhorts is

intended not to supplant but to supplement the submission

denoted by the word Islam. It emphasizes the soul's exile from

its Maker and its inborn longing to return and lose itself in Him,

in spite of other attractions.

Here are some passages from Rumi's Masnavi:

 

Listen to the reed how it tells a tale

Complaining of separation.

 

Comment: This is the very beginning of Masnavi. It has an

inexplicable abruptness as a beginning. The reed here is the

flute of Lord Krishna.

 

I died a mineral and became a plant.

I died a plant and rose an animal.

I died an animal and I was man.

Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?

Yet once more I shall die as man, to soar

With angels blest; but even from angelhood

I must pass on: 'All save the face of God doth perish'.

When I have sacrificed my angel soul,

I shall become what no mind has ever conceived.

O, let me not exist; for Non-Existence

Proclaims 'To Him shall we return'.

 

Comment : Profvk does not fully understand the last two lines!

 

Thy call 'Oh God' is my call 'I am here',

Thy pain and praying, message mine so clear,

And all thy strives to reach the ear of mine,

That I am drawing thee, it is a sign.

The love-woe is my grace. Why dost thou cry?

Thy call 'Oh God' means hundred 'Here am I'.

 

Comment: Reminds me of Sathya Sai Baba's frequent

declaration: Take one step towards Me and I will take ten steps

towards you.

 

The lamps are different but the Light is the same, it comes from

Beyond;

If thou keep looking at the lamp, thou art lost; for thence arises

the appearance of number and plurality;

Fix the gaze upon the Light and thou art divested from the

dualism, inherent in the finite body;

O Thou who art the kernel of existence, the disagreement

between Muslim, Zoroastrian and Jew depend upon the stand-

point.

 

Comment: Is it Rumi or a modern Sankara or Ramakrishna

that is saying this?

 

Here is another which is very much like Sankara's:

 

He sees the reality whose eyes are perfect.

Double (in place of single is seen duly by him, who suffers from

diplopia.

Because this duality is the characteristic of a defective eye,

Otherwise the first is the last and last is the first.

 

Cf. Bhagawad-Gita 18 - 16. Now such being the case, verily he

who, owing to his untrained understanding, looks upon his Self,

which is 'alone', as the doer, he, of perverted intelligence, sees

not.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

Prof.V. Krishnamurthy

My two books, one on Science and Spirituality

and the other on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought, Vision and Practice,

can both be accessed at the address:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-

profvk

advaitin

Thursday, June 22, 2000 11:13 AM

Jalaluddin Rumi - Call of advaita from Persia

 

 

 

O, let me not exist; for Non-Existence

Proclaims 'To Him shall we return'.

 

Comment : Profvk does not fully understand the last two lines!

 

My few pence..a one liner.

 

With The eradication of "I" (what the poet calls Non-Existence

or "let me not exist"), there is no one to return to the

prior finite, myopic or samsaric view but "we" return

or are established in "Him" - the Infinite.

 

~dave

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I highly recommend two Rumi lists, both at .

'Sunlight' regularly send out excerpts from the

Mathnawi, and 'Ruminations' is a discussion group

which has many Rumi and Islamic scholars among its

members.

 

kind regards,

 

Anthony

 

--- profvk <profvk wrote: > Madhavaji

motivated me to post any further poems

> which

> fascinated me. So here is Jalaluddin Rumi, the great

> Persian

> poet (1207 - 1274 A.D.). His 'Masnavi' is in six

> volumes and I

> don't know whether a complete English translation is

> available.

 

<snip>

 

=====

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Rational mysticism discussion group:

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they slither while they pass, they slip away across the

Universe....."

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Prof. VKrishnamurthyji:

 

A big thank you for introducing Rumi's poetry to the list. It is absolutely

fascinating. All the lines are filled with in-depth meaning. I would wait

to read more. Thank you once again.

 

I would also request the learned list members to share with the list the

articles (i.e. poems, stories) which speaks out good advaitic lessons.

Thank you.

 

Yours,

Madhava

 

-

profvk <profvk

> The lamps are different but the Light is the same, it comes from

> Beyond;

> If thou keep looking at the lamp, thou art lost; for thence arises

> the appearance of number and plurality;

> Fix the gaze upon the Light and thou art divested from the

> dualism, inherent in the finite body;

> O Thou who art the kernel of existence, the disagreement

> between Muslim, Zoroastrian and Jew depend upon the stand-

> point.

>

> Comment: Is it Rumi or a modern Sankara or Ramakrishna

> that is saying this?

>

> Here is another which is very much like Sankara's:

>

> He sees the reality whose eyes are perfect.

> Double (in place of single is seen duly by him, who suffers from

> diplopia.

> Because this duality is the characteristic of a defective eye,

> Otherwise the first is the last and last is the first.

>

> Cf. Bhagawad-Gita 18 - 16. Now such being the case, verily he

> who, owing to his untrained understanding, looks upon his Self,

> which is 'alone', as the doer, he, of perverted intelligence, sees

> not.

>

> praNAms to all advaitins

> profvk

> Prof.V. Krishnamurthy

[Guest guest]

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DO MEAN BY THOUGHT ? THANKS

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU . BUT IT THINKS IN ME LOVE BILL

[Guest guest]

Profvk writes:

>O, let me not exist; for Non-Existence

>Proclaims 'To Him shall we return'.

>

>Comment : Profvk does not fully understand the last two lines!

 

Profvk comments reminds the conversation in the Kenopanishad between the

teacher and the tought - those who say 'I understand' - understand it not

and those who say 'I donot understand' understand it well! - since it is

not something to understand but something to be. That understanding is the

understanding as a fact and not as a thought.

 

Hari Om!

Sadanadna

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

[Guest guest]

>PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DO MEAN BY THOUGHT ? THANKS

 

Jk says thought is the reflection of the memory - According to Vedanta flow

of thoughts is the mind-intellect equipment - subtle inert - mater

 

The question above, for example, is a thought - rising in the awareness,

existing momentarily in the awareness and going back into it - since you

were aware of that thought for that time being which solidified as a

question in the internet.

 

Thought is not I - 'I think therefore I am' is Western thought! I am

therefore I think - is the Vedantic explanation - I have the thoughts - I

am aware of the thoughts - but I am not a thought.

 

Every thought has a locus and generally there are 'idam' thoughts or 'this

thoughts' and 'aham' -thought or 'I thought' based on the locus. - 'idam

thought is an object out there or out from the memory as - as JK statement

implies.

 

Understanding as understanding as a thought - is like information or

object-based understanding.

Understanding of the subject is no more as understanding of an object - but

understanding as oneself as the-self or 'I am' - that understanding is no

more as a thought process but just the very core of ones existence as

Bhagavaan Ramana puts it. "when that ego-thought - aham thought falls downs

since it is false, what raises in the mind is the understanding that - 'I

am' I am - etc. not as I am this or I am that - just Pure-existence-

awareness - being.

 

If I asked you "are you there?" your immediate answer if you are awake is

'Yes I am" -But If I asked you again 'How do you know that you exist?' -

the true answer is not by any means of knowledge but your existence you

know because your existence is independent of any means of knowledge. you

are pure existence which is self-existence since your existence does not

depend on any means and or by any means and the knowledge of your existence

does not depend on any means. Right now we know ourselves as " I am Plus

identified with object as I am this or I am that etc. - that qualified I

am. Unqualified I am is the pure existence and that understanding of my

nature is the understanding as understanding as a fact -

 

When I say 'I donot understand it' as Profvk mentioned - one cannot be

understood oneself as 'it' as an object since subject can never be the

object of understanding. Yet self-realization is true understanding of one

own nature without any qualifications. That understanding is what jk is

meant by understanding as fact and not a thought.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623