does (can) jeeva and brahman simultaneously exist?

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

Over the past weekend, in our local advaita group, we looked

at shri dakshiNAmurthy stotra of shri shankara. In the lively

discussion that followed, one of the questions that was brought

up was: "Does the jeeva and brahman simultaneously exist

(or co-exist)?"

 

The people who supported the affirmative (including the

discussion leader) have the following argument:

 

Brahman always exists. When the jeeva has intellectual

knowledge of brahman, the jeeva is aware that he/she

is jeeva, but also knew that the substratum is brahman.

Hence the jeeva and brahman simultaneously exit (co-exist).

 

The arguments contrary to the statement above (including by

yours truly) are the following:

 

1. Jeeva and brahman cannot and do not simultaneously exist.

(a) If you say you are brahman, then you are not a

jeeva (the individuality is no longer there).

(b) If you say you are a jeeva, then you have no

knowledge (experiential) of brahman. However

many intellectual arguments one makes, they

do not cut, because you still have not lost

your individuality, hence you are not aware

you are brahman.

 

2. Jeeva is an adhyasa (superimposition) on brahman.

If the veil of mAyA is removed, then jeeva no longer

exists and brahman only remains.

 

3. Similar to the rope-snake analogy: if we know the

rope to be the rope, snake does not exist. If we

are under the mistaken impression that it is a

snake, the rope does not exist. Thus the super-

-imposed and the substratum cannot simultaneously

exist in our awareness.

 

Any additional comments on the topic?

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy