Guest guest Posted July 9, 2000 Report Share Posted July 9, 2000 Parisi & Watson [niche] So my question is this: What can make it 'real' to us? What can move us along from the affirmation of profound philosophical ideas to something that is actually real to us in a living way, beyond intellectual question? And I ask this question on behalf of people who are rushing along through life trying to do their best, but who are a little distracted, maybe a little neurotic, mired in some bad habits and attitudes, and so appear to have no realistic prospect for full realization in the foreseeable future. This description probably fits the majority of the human race. For those of us who will in all likelihood never be another Ramakrishna or Ramana, what can make Advaita 'real' to us? Robert. [Madhava Replies:] :-) :-) A very thought provoking question in deed! I am trying to give my point of view, as always, comments and corrections are most welcome! The answer depends on which reality we are trying to perceive here. As I understood, Advaitic philosophy is the only philosophy which can promise you "unlimited happiness", in both worlds which are mentioned in Bhagawad Gita. (1) ayaM lOka = The world which one perceives through his five sense organs (2) Paraloka = An intricate one to understand through reading, though easy to understand through experience. We can say that it is the world that is inferred, by a few, with the data available to the five sense organs. And it is also the world which is beyond the perception of the five sense organs. It is beyond emotional realm where we humans dwell! "Nothing but Maximum happiness!" Is what I see through Advaita... It is not that the world changes. But it is the change that takes place with in you, immediately after you adhere to the core principle of Advaita and follow it with full fledged faith, a faith which is not compromised (avyabhicAri bhAvana). Upanishads say "yastu sarvANi bhootAni AtmaivAboodvijAnataH, tatra kO mOhaH kaSSOkaH Ekatva manupaSyataH". He who understands that everything is his own self, the world that is perceived is nothing but the "MIRROR REALITY" of ones own self, then where is the delusion? If we hurt somebody then we have no right to expect praises in return... After doing certain deeds we find inner peace... This is the paralOka... I believe that "The world is a continuum of actions and reactions." A good action need not necessarily bring a good reaction, because what you see as good may not be perceived as good by the other! So where do you draw the line? The reality itself is in check! Happiness is nothing but inner peace, tranquility of thoughts. Happiness is a beautiful experience which can't be explained. I can proclaim that I am happy, I can also tell the cause which made me feel happy. Even then, I can't explain you my experience of happiness... If the cause is known and the effect is known, then what are we waiting for! The cause to the advaitic experience is perceiving the self everywhere... The effect is an experience which can't be explained. It is that simple. Advaita promises harmony in society. It changes the way we live, the way we interact, the way we do things ---- all this will bring a beautiful joy to the overall humanity. Advaita is a collective thought of individuals. It is a promised land. But in order to bring this reality to this human realm, we need to educate. We need to educate all humans that though we appear different, we are the same self everywhere... All this is a beautiful drama of the omnipotent Brahman... sarvaM khalvidaM brahma. Once this fact is understood, a person who is working in a low level job, will no more think that he is low, he will realize that he is equal if not higher! No more humans will fall false prey to the emotional high drama that takes place in our day to day life... The emotional drama which takes place all the time with the help of five sense organs and in the direction of the mind! Pardon me for saying, but those who think that they are half-good are hypocrites (midhyAcaris). They are cheating themselves. Advaitic experience is a sore grape for those who continuously cheat themselves. What ever action is performed, one should have full conviction towards it. I don't prefer people saying "I have plenty of respect for the Lord; it's his fan club that I can't stand". This kind of thinking is tantamount to cheating, it is hypocrisy.... If one thinks that he is bad - then he should change. No middle way! No compromise! One should be fearless... One should not expect pity from others, for he gain nothing through such. I have seen enough people who used to approach my teacher and say "Amma, I am week, I am helpless, I am vulnerable to the worldly desires... is there any way out for us?"... Amma says "no middle way, if you think that you are week, then change! Change can happen NOW! Otherwise it will never...." I often wonder at those people who say those things to their respected teachers... I always wanted to question "What are you expecting 'sympathy'??? for what? from whom? why should anybody sympathize for you are week and vulnerable? If you are addict, then get rid of that addiction. What are you expecting? Pep talk?..... If you know you are week then do something... Awake..." Pep talk is for hypocrites. Real people are really fearless. Become real... Never live in falsehood. A person should find no discomfort even in the act of begging. I remain yours, Madhava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2000 Report Share Posted July 9, 2000 Madhava K. Turumella <madhava advaitin (AT) eGroups (DOT) com <advaitin (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> Sunday, July 09, 2000 5:17 AM RE: Feasibility versus Truth, or Making It ?Real? [...] >Pardon me for saying, but those who think that they are half-good are >hypocrites (midhyAcaris). They are cheating themselves. Advaitic >experience is a sore grape for those who continuously cheat themselves. >What ever action is performed, one should have full conviction towards it. >I don't prefer people saying "I have plenty of respect for the Lord; it's >his fan club that I can't stand". This kind of thinking is tantamount to >cheating, it is hypocrisy.... > >If one thinks that he is bad - then he should change. No middle way! No >compromise! One should be fearless... One should not expect pity from >others, for he gain nothing through such. [...] First, I asked for no sympathy, either for myself or for the bulk of muddled, toiling humanity. I merely gave what I think we all know is an accurate description of the condition of most people in the world. Second, these two factors are clearly related. It is much more plausible and likely that we will 'catch fire' with sadhana if we truly believe in our hearts that its object is absolutely real, as opposed to a plausible idea in which we piously believe, but which could be mistaken. In most cases, contrary to the ideas we may have about ourselves, we don't really decide things rationally. The reality is more that an intuitive decision is made below the level of conscious reasoning, and then we find logical ways to rationalize it after the fact. And some people are just habitual doubters and questioners, whose deep intuitive perceptions tend to shift and change over time, often not as a result of any personal desire for it to be so. In many areas of life this is a good condition, since it undermines prejudice and narrowness by forcing the re-examination of previously accepted ideas. But it also does a very nice job of sabotaging anything that we might term steady faith. It is on behalf of these people that I asked my question. And I am still asking it, since it now appears that we are caught in a dilemma: we can know the truth for ourselves by means of absolute and unwavering faith, but this faith is the very thing that is lacking in the first place. "I find Vedanta convincing, but it is not absolutely real to me.The answer is that you must have total faith that it is absolutely real." A paradox, is it not? And probably a fundamental aspect of the human condition - or should I say predicament? Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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