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don't know if this will help and don't know abt its correctness.

 

What do u think an empty glass vessel is full/empty ?

 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Colette wrote:

> Dearest friends so good to be amongst you again :-)

>

> Lately you know .. I have been continuing my studies into ... the structuring

dynamics of the universe & our own Reality .. & what Is Brahman?

>

> And so I like to bounce off you all here .. especially my good buddy Frank ...

(I hope using that term doesn't sound funny, for here in my countrt it means

friend).

>

> So .. what have I come up with? I was at first wondering whether Brahman Is

absolute OR relative OR BOTH .. and then .. to my surprise saw this quote from

Maharishi Mahesh (Beloved) Yogi ..

>

> Maharishi has said ...

>

> "The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

>

> Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

>

> Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

> Brahman is NOT the relative.

> Brahman is NOT both together.

> Brahman is NOT neither."

>

> Brahman is The Knower.

>

> This is what a friend told me. And now I think maybe the absolute is Atma. And

Brahman is That which is able to see absolute and/or relative ~ Seer ~ Knower ..

>

> So it may be a good topic to explore if anyone feels inclined ~

>

> My other foray into subtler explorations is .. How can emptiness be full? How

Buddhism I am told, says it is all empty yet advaita speaks of a fullness ...

>

> Are they speaking of two different stages of conscious awareness .. I wonder?

>

> Peace,

>

> Col

Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy

focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. Searchable List Archives are

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Dearest friends so good to be amongst you again :-)

 

Lately you know .. I have been continuing my studies into ... the structuring

dynamics of the universe & our own Reality .. & what Is Brahman?

 

And so I like to bounce off you all here .. especially my good buddy Frank ...

(I hope using that term doesn't sound funny, for here in my countrt it means

friend).

 

So .. what have I come up with? I was at first wondering whether Brahman Is

absolute OR relative OR BOTH .. and then .. to my surprise saw this quote from

Maharishi Mahesh (Beloved) Yogi ..

 

Maharishi has said ...

 

"The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

 

Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

 

Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

Brahman is NOT the relative.

Brahman is NOT both together.

Brahman is NOT neither."

 

Brahman is The Knower.

 

This is what a friend told me. And now I think maybe the absolute is Atma. And

Brahman is That which is able to see absolute and/or relative ~ Seer ~ Knower ..

 

So it may be a good topic to explore if anyone feels inclined ~

 

My other foray into subtler explorations is .. How can emptiness be full? How

Buddhism I am told, says it is all empty yet advaita speaks of a fullness ...

 

Are they speaking of two different stages of conscious awareness .. I wonder?

 

Peace,

 

Col

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Colette wrote:

> This is what a friend told me. And now I think maybe the absolute is Atma. And

Brahman is That which is able to see absolute and/or relative ~ Seer ~ Knower ..

 

How about this anology:

 

Brahman is the sleeping, dreaming person, while AtmA is the

metaphorical pair of eyes witnessing everything impersonally in the

dream that the dreaming person, Brahman is dreaming.

 

The dream is our mAyic world. The dream is only taking place because

the person is dreaming or because the AtmA is witnessing it.

 

The normal meaning of "dream" is used here analogically.

 

 

--

Warmest regards,

Ruben

rubenn

_____________

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Colette wrote:

> I was at first wondering whether Brahman Is

> absolute OR relative OR BOTH .. and then ..

> to my surprise saw this quote from Maharishi

> Mahesh (Beloved) Yogi ..

>

> Maharishi has said ...

>

> "The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

>

> Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

>

> Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

> Brahman is NOT the relative.

> Brahman is NOT both together.

> Brahman is NOT neither."

>

> Brahman is The Knower.

>

 

hi col,

namaste.

 

on one hand i might say i couldnt disagree more...

on the other, it may be advantageous to look at

it this way. depends on the mental conditioning

of the individual involved.

 

see what i'm getting at?

 

these are just definitions, in turn representing

constituents within spiritual philosophies that have

the function of delivering us each to our destination:

moksha. then they are thrown. they aren't needed

anymore. (aside from showing others the way, they

become burdensome to carry. but this is another

matter.)

 

we depend upon and even fiercely defend our ideas

about this or that, especially when it comes to

things that 'spiritually' resonate within us.

but this is only, afterall, apparent. only mind

stuff. not really spiritual. spiritual never

formulates into ideas. it is strictly--for lack

of a better word--experiential. it lives and

breathes in the Heart, not the Mind. so ideas

about it are only formulated for the purpose of

removing ALL ideas about it! :-) no kidding.

this is what our spiritual work comes down to.

as ramakrishna tells us: "a thorn (sadhana) is

used to pluck another thorn (avidya) from under

the skin...and when it's dislodged, *both* are

discarded."

 

> My other foray into subtler explorations is

> .. How can emptiness be full? How Buddhism I

> am told, says it is all empty yet advaita

> speaks of a fullness ...

>

> Are they speaking of two different stages of

> conscious awareness .. I wonder?

 

keeping in mind what i said above, yes i'd say

this pertains to stages of the individual's

understanding capacity, as well as temperament.

again only in the name of methodology and means.

 

at the higher level or later stages of training--

which ideology may or may not be necessary for

the aspirant to embrace--they *both* speak in

terms of an 'emptiness in fullness'; and a

'fullness in emptiness.'

 

you see, moksha can happen anytime anywhere!

regardless of what the heck the mind is holding

as a philosophic parameter. the most powerful

parameter is one that can suddenly and out of

nowhere come and *blank* the mind! then some

burst of light floods the Heart and the mind is

somehow suddenly reduced to merely witnessing.

 

peacelove in OM,

frank

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Namaste,

 

Beautifully put!

 

Another of Sri Ramakrishna's favorite sayings:

 

The Bhagavan of devotees, Atman of Yogis, and Brahman of Vedantins, refers

to the SAME: eka.n sadvipraa bahudhaa vadanti .

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

>"f. maiello" <egodust

>advaitin

>advaitin

>Re: Brahman Who?:-)

>Thu, 03 Aug 2000 07:06:22 -0400

>

>these are just definitions, in turn representing

>constituents within spiritual philosophies that have

>the function of delivering us each to our destination:

>moksha. then they are thrown. they aren't needed

>anymore. (aside from showing others the way, they

>become burdensome to carry. but this is another

>matter.)

>

>we depend upon and even fiercely defend our ideas

>about this or that, especially when it comes to

>things that 'spiritually' resonate within us.

>but this is only, afterall, apparent. only mind

>stuff. not really spiritual. spiritual never

>formulates into ideas. it is strictly--for lack

>of a better word--experiential. it lives and

>breathes in the Heart, not the Mind. so ideas

>about it are only formulated for the purpose of

>removing ALL ideas about it! :-) no kidding.

>this is what our spiritual work comes down to.

>as ramakrishna tells us: "a thorn (sadhana) is

>used to pluck another thorn (avidya) from under

>the skin...and when it's dislodged, *both* are

>discarded."

>

>

> > My other foray into subtler explorations is

> > .. How can emptiness be full? How Buddhism I

> > am told, says it is all empty yet advaita

> > speaks of a fullness ...

> >

> > Are they speaking of two different stages of

> > conscious awareness .. I wonder?

>

>keeping in mind what i said above, yes i'd say

>this pertains to stages of the individual's

>understanding capacity, as well as temperament.

>again only in the name of methodology and means.

>

>at the higher level or later stages of training--

>which ideology may or may not be necessary for

>the aspirant to embrace--they *both* speak in

>terms of an 'emptiness in fullness'; and a

>'fullness in emptiness.'

>

>peacelove in OM,

>frank

 

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Please forgive if this is a duplicate posting - I got an error message

first time.

 

--Greg

===================

 

Welcome back Colette,

 

These are very interesting investigations you are making! I'd like to talk

about a couple of questions you ask:

 

1. Is Brahman absolute or relative, or both?

 

Brahman is all there is. There is nothing outside, or beyond, or other

than Brahman. Absolute or relative? The difference between the absolute

and the relative is this -- the relative thinks there's a difference

between the absolute and the relative.

 

2. Buddhist emptiness and Advaitic fullness. What's the difference? Are

they two different stages of consciousness?

 

Writing this from NYC in 2000, I can say that here in the West and now in

the 21st century, we choose paths more than they did in ancient India and

Asia. Sometimes the choice is a matter of temperament, what appeals, what

resonates deeply. Between the two you mention, Buddhist emptiness and

Advaitic fullness, there are several crucial things in common. In both,

there's nothing lacking and nothing obstructing. Nothing missing, and

nothing in the way. If the "nothing lacking" side appeals more to a

person, then there might be a temperamental affinity towards the "fullness"

or advaitic kinds of description. On the other hand, if the "nothing

obstructing" side appeals more, there might be a temperamental affinity

towards an "emptiness" kinds of Buddhist description. The choice of path

might relate to this. If Ramana and Buddha were to meet each other on the

street in a modern city, might they not just give each other the high five?

 

But ultimate purpose of all these inquiries is not to land on the best

theory or the final true statement. Rather, it is to end all reliance and

dependence on a view or frame of mind - indeed to result in the end of all

grasping at anything phenomenal whatsoever.

 

Om/Amituofo,

 

--Greg

 

At 07:09 PM 8/3/00 +1000, Colette wrote:

>Dearest friends so good to be amongst you again :-)

>

>Lately you know .. I have been continuing my studies into ... the

structuring dynamics of the universe & our own Reality .. & what Is Brahman?

>

>And so I like to bounce off you all here .. especially my good buddy Frank

.... (I hope using that term doesn't sound funny, for here in my countrt it

means friend).

>

>So .. what have I come up with? I was at first wondering whether Brahman

Is absolute OR relative OR BOTH .. and then .. to my surprise saw this

quote from Maharishi Mahesh (Beloved) Yogi ..

>

>Maharishi has said ...

>

>"The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

>

>Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

>

>Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

>Brahman is NOT the relative.

>Brahman is NOT both together.

>Brahman is NOT neither."

>

>Brahman is The Knower.

>

>This is what a friend told me. And now I think maybe the absolute is Atma.

And Brahman is That which is able to see absolute and/or relative ~ Seer ~

Knower ..

>

>So it may be a good topic to explore if anyone feels inclined ~

>

>My other foray into subtler explorations is .. How can emptiness be full?

How Buddhism I am told, says it is all empty yet advaita speaks of a

fullness ...

>

>Are they speaking of two different stages of conscious awareness .. I wonder?

>

>Peace,

>

>Col

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advaitin , Colette <colette@b...> wrote:

 

[snip]

> Maharishi has said ...

>

> "The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

>

> Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

>

> Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

> Brahman is NOT the relative.

> Brahman is NOT both together.

> Brahman is NOT neither."

>

> Brahman is The Knower.

 

I'm not too sure about this. Who is there to "know?" While there

appears to be a "knower," this "knowledge" only exists in relation

to the individual. That is, "I" as Jody can know something relative

to the existence of "Jody." However, the knowledge of the Absolute

in the context of an individual life is a different kind of knowledge,

one that does not depend on an individual "knower," even while this

knowledge can exist within the context of individual knowledge.

That is, while the blessing of moksha brings to the life of the one

so blessed a special kind of experiential knowledge--that of the

Absolute knowing Itself as the Absolute--this knowledge "belongs" to

the Absolute. The mind is merely present as a recorder of the ongoing

"event" of this knowledge. To put it another way, the Absolute

recognizes the Absolute in the context of an individual's life,

and the mind of said individual acts as a detector/recorder of this.

> This is what a friend told me. And now I think maybe the absolute is

> Atma. And Brahman is That which is able to see absolute and/or

> relative ~ Seer ~ Knower ..

 

There can be no separation between Brahman and Atman and the Absolute.

There is only one. For the sake of discussion, Atman refers to the

directly experienced Brahman in the life of an individual, but they

are one and the same, and they are Absolute.

> So it may be a good topic to explore if anyone feels inclined ~

>

> My other foray into subtler explorations is .. How can emptiness be

> full? How Buddhism I am told, says it is all empty yet advaita

> speaks of a fullness ...

>

> Are they speaking of two different stages of conscious awareness ..

> I wonder?

>

> Peace,

>

> Col

 

The Absolute cannot be "known" by the mind, but It knows of Itself,

and when an individual is blessed with the existence of this

knowledge, the mind is present as a recorder. However, what the mind

"records" is an experience of "No-thing." This No-thing appears to be

an "emptiness" that is "full." You can say it is like a "Nothing"

you can take a bite out of. The emptiness is not one of being

"empty," but one of being undiscernable. It's like a "blank" that is

nonetheless full of "Self," and one has a "knowledge" that this is the

basis of his/her/all existence.

 

--jody.

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Namaste,

 

Saint Jnaneshvara [circa 1300 AD] used a metaphor in this context of

two mirrors facing each other; it cannot be determined which one reflects

the other!

 

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

>"jody " <jodyr

>advaitin

>advaitin

> Re: Brahman Who?:-)

>Thu, 03 Aug 2000 17:41:20 -0000

>

> >

> > Are they speaking of two different stages of conscious awareness ..

> > I wonder?

> >

> > Peace,

> >

> > Col

>

>The Absolute cannot be "known" by the mind, but It knows of Itself,

>and when an individual is blessed with the existence of this

>knowledge, the mind is present as a recorder. However, what the mind

>"records" is an experience of "No-thing." This No-thing appears to be

>an "emptiness" that is "full." You can say it is like a "Nothing"

>you can take a bite out of. The emptiness is not one of being

>"empty," but one of being undiscernable. It's like a "blank" that is

>nonetheless full of "Self," and one has a "knowledge" that this is the

>basis of his/her/all existence.

>

>--jody.

>

>

 

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I enjoyed reading this Jody.

 

jody wrote:

> advaitin , Colette <colette@b...> wrote:

>

> [snip]

>

> > Maharishi has said ...

> >

> > "The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

> >

> > Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

> >

> > Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

> > Brahman is NOT the relative.

> > Brahman is NOT both together.

> > Brahman is NOT neither."

> >

> > Brahman is The Knower.

>

> I'm not too sure about this. Who is there to "know?"

 

Knower knows Self .. consciousness conscious of itself .. yet as this is a

unified Self then one cannot experience oneself as that needs 'something'

different from self 'to' experience. In that state only subject remains ..

Knower ~ Rishi ~ Seer .. the Eye of Being.

> While there

> appears to be a "knower," this "knowledge" only exists in relation

> to the individual. That is, "I" as Jody can know something relative

> to the existence of "Jody." However, the knowledge of the Absolute

> in the context of an individual life is a different kind of knowledge,

 

That is why Osho & others call it 'not knowing' :-) just Being .. Is ness.

> one that does not depend on an individual "knower," even while this

> knowledge can exist within the context of individual knowledge.

> That is, while the blessing of moksha brings to the life of the one

> so blessed a special kind of experiential knowledge--that of the

> Absolute knowing Itself as the Absolute--this knowledge "belongs" to

> the Absolute. The mind is merely present as a recorder of the ongoing

> "event" of this knowledge. To put it another way, the Absolute

> recognizes the Absolute in the context of an individual's life,

> and the mind of said individual acts as a detector/recorder of this.

>

> > This is what a friend told me. And now I think maybe the absolute is

> > Atma. And Brahman is That which is able to see absolute and/or

> > relative ~ Seer ~ Knower ..

>

> There can be no separation between Brahman and Atman and the Absolute.

> There is only one. For the sake of discussion, Atman refers to the

> directly experienced Brahman in the life of an individual, but they

> are one and the same, and they are Absolute.

 

I see it may be like this Jody .. it could be said that sunya is an experience

of Atma. Quite one extreme of consiousness ~ Source ItSelf. In breath of God

union leads to That. But is that full enlightenment? No.

 

Next comes the out breath of God .. where Self is unifying the relative in

activity .. meditation now is active.

 

Some say this .. In breath to learn I Am God .. Out breath to experience Thou

Art God. And towards unity consciousness ~ All This is My Self ~ Brahman ...

>

>

> > So it may be a good topic to explore if anyone feels inclined ~

> >

> > My other foray into subtler explorations is .. How can emptiness be

> > full? How Buddhism I am told, says it is all empty yet advaita

> > speaks of a fullness ...

> >

> > Are they speaking of two different stages of conscious awareness ..

> > I wonder?

> >

> > Peace,

> >

> > Col

>

> The Absolute cannot be "known" by the mind, but It knows of Itself,

> and when an individual is blessed with the existence of this

> knowledge, the mind is present as a recorder.

 

Mind by that stage is Cosmic.

> However, what the mind

> "records" is an experience of "No-thing." This No-thing appears to be

> an "emptiness" that is "full." You can say it is like a "Nothing"

> you can take a bite out of.

 

? a bite? I wonder what you mean here.

> The emptiness is not one of being

> "empty," but one of being undiscernable.

 

To discern means some thing separate 'to' discern .. yes.

> It's like a "blank" that is

> nonetheless full of "Self," and one has a "knowledge" that this is the

> basis of his/her/all existence.

 

Thanks Jody. Good fun chatting,

 

Col

> --jody.

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Two announcements:

 

1. A new e-mail forum called NoDoer, inspired by the teaching of the late

Jean Klein, has just been formed. Go to NoDoer

 

2. A new group called Advaita Satsang will begin having monthly meetings in

the Seattle (USA) area. Again, Jean Klein is the chief inspiration for

forming this group. For more information contact mark.

 

Mark Hovila

http://hovila.com/klein.html

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Colette wrote:

> [...] The only way you get to see your Self at all

> is in the play of absolute & relative. IMO.

 

i absolutely relatively agree with you! hahaha!

 

no, really, i do...and it's an especially important point.

 

that's the whole reason for the manifestation or

projection of brahman into Life (the leela).

this relates to what is said in rig veda, re brahman's

'desire' to experience Itself--the whole reason for Its

relative creation! (which was why i mentioned that

i was anxious to see H.B. Dave's interpretation of that

part of RigVeda.) really, this hinges on so much, can

clarify so much of our bewilderment re the nature of

maya and why it exists...which acknowledgment will

enable us [by coming to terms with it] to live in peace

within [what we have to admit is] Its awesome nature!

 

i'm sounding like a broken record with this point

but i feel it's vital/pivotal to recognize--all for

expediting and making possible the very shift into

moksha itself.

 

OM shaanthi

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Peace, all.

 

f. maiello wrote:

> Colette wrote:

> > I was at first wondering whether Brahman Is

> > absolute OR relative OR BOTH .. and then ..

> > to my surprise saw this quote from Maharishi

> > Mahesh (Beloved) Yogi ..

> >

> > Maharishi has said ...

> >

> > "The Absolute is pure existence, pure Isness.

> >

> > Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is not.

> >

> > Brahman is NOT the Absolute.

> > Brahman is NOT the relative.

> > Brahman is NOT both together.

> > Brahman is NOT neither."

> >

> > Brahman is The Knower.

> >

>

> hi col,

> namaste.

>

> on one hand i might say i couldnt disagree more...

> on the other, it may be advantageous to look at

> it this way. depends on the mental conditioning

> of the individual involved.

>

> see what i'm getting at?

 

Frank I see that what Maharishi has said is the same as your .. 'we are mystery'

...Can you see yourself? Can you see the absolute to comment on it after? If you

see it to talk about it then is it who you are? Who sees it? Do we see the

relative to talk about it too?

 

Can we see our Self .. or is Self this play that we do see of the absolute&

relative?

Yes this quite plays into what Gregory has said too in that there are no

concepts there. I see that this quote actually agrees with what you are all

saying. Just change your angle of viewing. The only way you get to see your Self

at all is in the play of absolute & relative. IMO. Yes it's All Self all

brahman but who is this One?

 

Peace,

 

Colette

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The question, ‘Who is Brahman?' is quite fundamental

and the mahAvAkyas (Great Revelations) contain the

answers. The mahAvAkyas just confirm why Brahman is

non-definable.

 

tat tvam asi - That thou art

Chandogya 6.8.7 (Rig Veda)

 

aham brahmAsmi - I am Brahman

brihadaranyaka 1.4.10 (Yajur Veda)

 

praGYAnaM brahma - Brahman is consciousness

Aitreya 5.3 (Sama Veda)

 

ayamAtma brahma - The Atman is Brahman

mandukya 1.2 (Atharva Veda)

 

The mahAvAkyas are part of the four Vedas and this

not just by coincidence. All declarations in the Vedas

are ‘Self-revelations.' during deep meditation and

they represent the Truth and nothing but the Truth.

 

If we try to say anything more than the mahAvAkyas we

end up introducing concepts and definitions that

become intellectually appealing. Then the same

intellect will come back and haunt us and bring

confusions and will sure trap with an endless loop!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

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advaitin , Colette <colette@b...> wrote:

> I enjoyed reading this Jody.

 

:)

 

[snip]

> > > Brahman is The Knower.

> >

> > I'm not too sure about this. Who is there to "know?"

>

> Knower knows Self .. consciousness conscious of itself .. yet as

> this is a unified Self then one cannot experience oneself as that

> needs 'something' different from self 'to' experience. In that state

> only subject remains .. Knower ~ Rishi ~ Seer .. the Eye of Being.

 

Knowledge requires the sub/obj thing. Awareness of Pure Being isn't

a sub/obj thing. It just IS. It doesn't require a knower to be known.

Everyone is realized right now because we are all the Self right now.

The Self knows Itself in the context of *all* of our lives. However,

the recognition that imparts an individual life with jnana appears

in only a few. That's pretty perplexing. It would appear to have

something to do with attachment, tension, and turbulence in the mind,

but it remains a mystery to me as these qualities can be shown to

exist in the lives of many acknowledged saints.

 

[snip]

> > There can be no separation between Brahman and Atman and the

> > Absolute. There is only one. For the sake of discussion, Atman

> > refers to the directly experienced Brahman in the life of an

> > individual, but they are one and the same, and they are Absolute.

>

> I see it may be like this Jody .. it could be said that sunya is an

> experience of Atma. Quite one extreme of consiousness ~ Source

> ItSelf. In breath of God union leads to That. But is that full

> enlightenment? No.

 

Full enlightenment is a funny term. It means different things

to different people. There are plenty of folk that assume they

will experience themselves as depersonalized beings upon their

enlightenment, that their idea of themselves as individual beings

will go away. Yeah right! Try putting potatos in your mouth

that way.

 

There certainly appear to be degrees of enlightenment, but I would

contend that they all start in realization of the Self, which many

would hold to be full enlightenment. Those I've met who are realized

are still quite capable of exhibiting "personal" characteristics.

 

[snip]

> > However, what the mind "records" is an experience of "No-thing."

> > This No-thing appears to be an "emptiness" that is "full." You

> > can say it is like a "Nothing" you can take a bite out of.

>

> ? a bite? I wonder what you mean here.

 

Imagine air. You cannot see it. Sure, we can feel it with our hands,

but ignore that for a sec. The air is like nothing. Now imagine that

you could literally bite into the air, and get a hold of something.

You wouldn't be able to eat it, but you could hold on to it.

 

There is a kind of experience that exists in the mind that the mind

is powerless to express, yet because the experience occurs the mind

tries anyway, coming up with statements like "an emptiness that is

full" or "a silence that is deafening". It is a description of the

mind's attempt to describe the indescribable to itself.

 

--jody.

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Brahman who?

Brahman *I* am :-)

 

Brahman why?

Because *I* am :-)

 

Brahman How?

To be as *I* am :-)

 

 

LOL - Do you know which makes you laugh when you stand in the absolute

awareness? Looking at the stupidity of this experiencing brahman :-)

 

Acting Brahman is very easy

Understanding Brahman is as difficult as reading a scripture written on the

surface of the water

Explaining Brahman is cheating

only one thing is true, which is ---

Being Brahman, because it is impromptu....

Stay there, no need to explain, when you know about yourself, who else could

you explain but to yourself....

 

Hari Om!

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On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Madhava K Turumella wrote:

> [...]

>

> LOL - Do you know which makes you laugh when you stand in the absolute

> awareness? Looking at the stupidity of this experiencing brahman :-)

>

> Acting Brahman is very easy

> Understanding Brahman is as difficult as reading a scripture written on the

> surface of the water

> Explaining Brahman is cheating

> only one thing is true, which is ---

> Being Brahman, because it is impromptu....

> Stay there, no need to explain, when you know about yourself, who else could

> you explain but to yourself....

>

> Hari Om!

>

 

 

namaste shri Madhava,

 

The following is my understanding.

 

"Acting Brahman is very easy": In my view, Acting Brahman is the

most difficult as long as we are in avidyA. I am taking by 'Acting

Brahman', Act as if you are brahman; or give the impression to the

audience that you are brahman (that is what acting is all about).

This, I think, is the most difficult. Good acting is one where the

actor merges in the role assigned. Of course, if we get rid of

avidyA, acting brahman is easy, because we are in that natural

state.

 

"Explaing Brahman is cheating": In my view, explaining brahman is

difficult because you are explaining the unexplainable. May be the

word "cheating" is harsh. If there were no attempts at explanations

by the upanishadic sages and by acAryAs like shri shankara, we will

not be even in the position of contemplation.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

----

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Dear Murthygaru,

 

namastE!

 

Thank you. An article, which I have read, on the in-famous indian gurus who

have taken their disciples for a ride, has prompted me to write that "Acting

brahman is easy". I felt pity for those disciples who have blindly believed

that their teacher is indeed Brahman (guru brahma) finally after realizing

the reality, it seems some of them committed suicide! In that context I

thought "Acting Brahman is easy" if it were not easy how is it possible for

some people to self proclaim!

 

If you think that the word "cheating" is harsh, then I take it back.

However, they tried to explain the inexplicable even in upanishads saying

"that moves and that doesn't move (tadEjati tannaijati)..." they used these

kind of counter statements in order to explain the highest. Arjuna was

confused in Gita while Krishna employed these words and said "vyAmiShENEva

vAkyEna buddhiM mOhayaseevamE" --- I am getting deluded by your confusing

statements.... How will one escape from getting cheated? By being more

cautious, and by rejecting the applied term. Finally we reach a place where

no terms are possible, it is absolute. I couldn't find another word,

anyway, as I said I take back the word, sorry about that. Thank you for

your kind advise once again.

 

I remain yours,

Madhava

 

 

 

 

 

Gummuluru Murthy [gmurthy]

Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:09 PM

advaitin

Re: Brahman Who?:-)

 

 

 

On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Madhava K Turumella wrote:

> [...]

>

> LOL - Do you know which makes you laugh when you stand in the absolute

> awareness? Looking at the stupidity of this experiencing brahman :-)

>

> Acting Brahman is very easy

> Understanding Brahman is as difficult as reading a scripture written on

the

> surface of the water

> Explaining Brahman is cheating

> only one thing is true, which is ---

> Being Brahman, because it is impromptu....

> Stay there, no need to explain, when you know about yourself, who else

could

> you explain but to yourself....

>

> Hari Om!

>

 

 

namaste shri Madhava,

 

The following is my understanding.

 

"Acting Brahman is very easy": In my view, Acting Brahman is the

most difficult as long as we are in avidyA. I am taking by 'Acting

Brahman', Act as if you are brahman; or give the impression to the

audience that you are brahman (that is what acting is all about).

This, I think, is the most difficult. Good acting is one where the

actor merges in the role assigned. Of course, if we get rid of

avidyA, acting brahman is easy, because we are in that natural

state.

 

"Explaing Brahman is cheating": In my view, explaining brahman is

difficult because you are explaining the unexplainable. May be the

word "cheating" is harsh. If there were no attempts at explanations

by the upanishadic sages and by acAryAs like shri shankara, we will

not be even in the position of contemplation.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

----

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hari Om:

 

we are in a dream and it looks real,

our drama of life has acts and actors,

we play diverse roles without grasping,

our drama continues along with the dream.

 

questions belong to the same dream,

answers are also part of the dream,

the dream entertains us with new thoughts,

neither the thoughts nor the dreams stop.

 

Brahman who pertains to the same dream,

Brahman who is the cause of the dream,

the dreamer has to wake up from the dream,

to realize that Brahman who is the dreamer!

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