Why vedanta?

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Recently there was a big discussion on this thread. Although I would

like to get into this discussion, due to the workload in my office I am

not able to. So I am just posting excerpts from the Website

http://members.xoom.com/JaishankarN

 

with love and prayers,

 

Jaishankar.

 

Is there a Solution to my Fundamental Problem?

 

 

My Fundamental problem is 'I am wanting' and whatever I do, I remain

wanting. But the urge to be free from wanting is always there. If the

urge is natural, like hunger, that means there should be a means for

fulfilling that urge. Thirst is a natural urge. There is a means for

fulfilling that urge. Therefore, if these natural urges can be

fulfilled, then there must be a solution for my fundamental problem

also. It is not peculiar to my subjectivity. It is not peculiar to me

as a person, as an individual.

 

'I am small', 'I am wanting', this conclusion is not acceptable to

you. Do you know why? Because there is a solution. That is why it is

not acceptable. Thirst is not acceptable because there is a solution.

Unhappiness born out of this sense of want and dissatisfaction is not

acceptable. Therefore there is solution. Who is the solution? I am. If

I am wanting, I am the problem to myself. Forget about the world. I am

the problem to myself. Let me solve this problem. Perhaps I will be

helping people also solve their problems.

 

First, the problem is 'I am wanting'. This problem is a spiritual

problem, because it is common to all. It has nothing to do with going

to heaven or anything. It is a problem right now, because I am a self

conscious person. The solution has to be found here. You will be always

like this in this life, and later in heaven you will be okay, are all

palliatives given to you. This is purely a non-verifiable belief. You

will have to reconcile to an unacceptable fact and remain there ever

discontented. This is where a cognitive change which is called

vyavasayatmika buddhi / nischayatmika buddhi - clarity with reference

to what I want - is required. That has to be recognized. Heaven going

etc. is all tourism. We have toured a lot really. If there is a future

birth then there was a previous birth. Because there was a previous

birth, there was a previous birth, a previous birth, a previous

birth....Therefore, we have toured a lot definitely. To be here,

trapped in this body, we have done a lot of tourism. In fact, every

jiva is a tourist, really speaking.

 

So the solution is right here. I have to change in my understanding of

myself. What I think I am, is wrong. And there is a reason for my

thinking being wrong. There is a basis for saying that my thinking can

be wrong. For inspite of being a wanting person, I am able to enjoy a

hearty laughter. I am able to pick up a moment of happiness, and this

wanting me and the moment of happiness wherein I am happy, they are

opposed to each other. So one cannot be there coexisting with the other

one at the same time and place. So I cannot be wanting and at the same

time be a person who is free from wanting. No way! The very fact that I

am able to be happy inspite of all these problems of limitation shows

that even the most miserable person - miserable means the one who feels

miserable - can be happy now and then. The beggar is also happy.

Everybody is happy.

 

Everybody is happy because, everybody is to be happy and there is no

rule that I should fulfill all my wants and desires to be happy. There

is no such rule. That means what? That means, I can be happy without

fulfilling any want. That means what? I can be happy with the same body

with reference to which I have got lot of wants. I can be happy without

fulfilling the wants in terms of how the mind should be, how the

intellect should be. So all these wants I need not fulfill and still be

happy because, I do become happy occasionally.

 

Thus the fact of my being happy occasionally, reveals the fact that I

don't have to fulfill all my wants to be happy. If that is so, may be I

am that very happiness?! 'Is that true!' If I could be happy without

fulfilling any desire, well, that is what it is. Those people who are

exposed to this kind of teaching to some extent, they also think 'if

you fulfill a desire, you will be happy and that happiness does not

last. Do you know why? Because, another desire arises. So between the

fulfilled desire and the rise of another desire you become happy'.

There is some truth in this. True, but this is not all the truth about

it. Sometimes when you fulfill a desire, you wish that you were never

born. Sometimes you fulfill a desire and become unhappy. Sometimes you

don't fulfill a desire at all and you are happy. In fact, those moments

are much more in your life than the moments of joy you picked up after

fulfilling your desires.. Why? Because, you don't need to fulfill all

your desires to be happy. Do you know why? That is what you are. You

have to change cognitively. You have to be what you are and everything

is a plus for you. This cognitive change will put everything in

perspective in your life and you need not change your life pattern,

your life style, your ambitions etc.

 

How does a cognitive change about myself help me?. I will give a story

here to expalin this. Karna was a prince born of Kunti, the queen of

Hasthinapura. When Karna was born Kunti was not married at that time

and so she had to leave him in the river Ganga in a casket. He was

found by a charioteer and brought up by his wife Radha. But Karna

always wanted to be a royalty although he was only a charioteer's son.

He thought he was Radha's son and that was his problem. Now what should

he do to become the son of Kunti and hence a prince? Does he have to

meditate, or do Hatha Yoga or accomplish something great ? No. He has

to just know that he is already Kunti's son through a valid means of

knowledge. That happened when Krishna told him about his parentage. So

he had to just know who he was.

>From this we know that knowledge alone can be the solution for

accomplishing the accomplished. Karma or action can be a means for

accomplishing the unaccomplished. But Jnana or Knowledge is the only

solution if the problem is due to ignorance. Now if we are in reality

the limitless by nature, but we don't know this fact, then Knowledge of

our real nature alone is the solution for this problem. One can be

meditating for one's whole life or be in Samadhi for days, still it

wont be any good because the person who is meditating is the ignorant

person and he is not going to gain knowledge by just meditating, as

meditation is not a means of valid knowledge. For knowledge to take

place, a valid means of knowledge should be operated. Vedanta is the

means of knowledge in this case and so studying vedantic texts under a

proper Guru is the only solution for our fundamental problem. Vedanta

teaches us that we are already that limitless, which we are constantly

seeking. Now it is a challenge for us to understand what it teaches

about myself, the world and God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

Shri Sadananda has eloquently presented 'why Vedanta?'. This is

followed up by shri Jaishankar with another beautiful eloboration.

While I congratulate them on their eloquency and clarity, I have

a comment on the presentation.

 

Advaita (or vedanta; to me they are the same) is presented here as

a prescribed medicine for the quest of permanent happiness. The

article gives the impression that the eternal happiness is for the

taking; only one has to apply the mind for it.

>From my understanding, it is not so easy. The mind that applies to

this has to be pure, and has to be endowed with sAdhana catuShTayam.

Further, this has to be a full-fledged tapas before that permanent

happiness dawns on that person. Without mentioning that preparation

of the sAdhaka and eligibility of the sAdhaka in terms of earnestness

and purity of heart, the article gives the impression that it is

vedanta made-easy, which is never the case.

 

Shri Sadananda has given some beatiful analogies. Particularly,

I like the analogy of the man who has the keys searching for the keys

all over. However one difficulty with that is: Atmavidya is not like

the keys separate from the person. Atma vidya is the change in the

condition of the mind. Thus, there is difference between finding

the keys and being blessed with Atma vidya. As shri sadananda knows,

and has made the point many times, Atma vidya is not an intellectual

science.

 

If not for these minor comments, I think the posts are excellent and

I want to congratulate shri Sadananda and shri Jaishankar for attempting

to explain vedanta in simple terms.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

-----

[Guest guest]

Harih Aum:

 

It is a pleasure to see the on discussions on 'Why Vedanta' with the 'Pure

Vedantic' perspectives. There is nothing wrong in intellectual discussions as

long as the focus is learning and eradicating ignorance. Purity of the heart,

the end product, can be attained with the 'truth seeking' attitude. I agree

with Sri Raghavji that we should constantly remind our 'True Divine Nature,'

then our words will become our deeds. I believe that our attitude develops our

character and how we treat everyone around us.

 

Last week in our Toastmasters club meeting, one of the speech topic was "How I

am blessed." The speaker described all that happened that day from morning

till noon. Her day day was just normal: getting up from the bed, taking the

bath, having a breakfast, wearing some decent clothing, driving to work,

preparing for the speech and delievering the speech. The important point is

that any one of the normals things could have gone wrong: couldn't get up

because the the alarm didn't work, there was no hotwater during shower, no

milk or bread in the fridge, no decent clothes in the closet, traffic jam and

computer didn't work! With the correct attitude, we realize, that we are

always blessed and we should take every opportunity that we come across to

love, help and be kind. When we cultivate the vedantic perspectives, we will

start enjoy our life with the full extent and there will be no more

complaints, no more accusations and we will recognize our 'True Divine

Nature.'

 

Let me join others and welcome Raghavaji,

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

 

 

Gummuluru Murthy writes:

>What you have stated above is quite right and one would fully

> agree with it.

> But we should not forget onething in this; the purity of the

> heart. Only when the heart is pure, vedanta is effective. Without

> that purity, vedanta becomes an intellectual exercise only.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

The search for happiness is the basic motivation of all

creatures, and this is beautifully described in the dialogue between

Yajnavalkya and Janaka: Brihadaranyaka Upan. IV:iii:32,33 [Gurudeva

Ranade has called this the"Calculus of Happiness".]

 

" He becomes like water, one, the seer, without duality. This is the

world of Brahma, Your Majesty... 'This is his highest goal.; this is

his highest treasure; this is the highest world; this is his greatest

bliss. On a particle of this very bliss other creatures live.

 

"If one is healthy in body, wealthy, lord over others, lavishly

provided with all human enjoyments, that is the highest bliss of men.

 

This human bliss multiplied a hundred times makes one unit of the

bliss for the fathers who have won their world.

 

The bliss of these fathers who have won their world multiplied a

hundred times makes one unit of the bliss of the gandharva world.

 

The bliss of the gandhrva world multiplied a hundred times makes one

unit of the bliss of the gods by action, those who attain their

divine status by meritorious action.

 

The bliss of the gods by action multiplied a hundred times makes one

unit of the bliss of the gods by birth as well as of one who is

versed in the vedas, who is without sin and not overcome by desire.

 

The bliss of the gods by birth multiplied a hundred times makes one

unit of the bliss in the world of Prajapati, as well as of one who is

versed in the vedas, who is without sin and not overcome by desire.

 

The bliss in the world of Prajapati multiplied a hundred times makes

one unit of the bliss in the world of Hiranyagarbha as well as one

who is versed in the vedas, who is without sin and not overcome by

desire.

 

This is the highest bliss. This is the world of Brahma", Your

Majesty, said Yajnavalkya."

[tr. S. Radhakrishnan, The Principal Upanishads.

 

 

 

advaitin , Ram Chandran <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> Harih Aum:

>

> It is a pleasure to see the on discussions on 'Why Vedanta' with

the 'Pure

> Vedantic' perspectives. There is nothing wrong in intellectual

discussions as

> long as the focus is learning and eradicating ignorance. Purity of

the heart,

> the end product, can be attained with the 'truth seeking' attitude.