Guest guest Posted August 26, 2000 Report Share Posted August 26, 2000 Miguel Angel Carrasco wrote: > > Dear F.Maiello, > > Your post has made me a bit confused. > You seem to distinguish between first-class jnanis, > what you call "jagatgurus (world teachers) like ramana, > sankara, vedavyasa, vasishtha, jesus, buddha, etc." on > the one hand, and on the other the "so-called > neo-vedantins" like ramesh, nisargadatta, poonjaji, > gangaji, who "are not effective gurus". > > This baffles me. I had thought that either one is > enlightened or not. Without degrees. And once > enlightenment happens, all false ideas are dropped, as > one's mind merges with the Self. Reading you I get the > impression that you don't recognise Ramesh and > Nisargadatta as true advaita gurus. Is this so? To me > they are the two clearest teachers I've found so far. > > You seem to prefer jagatgurus like Jesus or Buddha. I > don't like either of them, least of all the first. Out > of respect for his followers (some of whom might be > among the members of the List), I won't say the aspects > of his doctrine I can't accept. Just this: he never > said any of the things which advaita holds. He never > said that we are not our bodies. He never said that > Consciousness is all there is. He never said that we > are That. He never said that the world is an illusion. > > The same can be said of Buddha. He never said any of > these things which are precisely the reason why I > follow Advaita and not buddhism or christianity. > > Yet, according to you, these two are jagatgurus, while > Nisargadatta is not. > > You leave me perplexed. dear miguel- my apologies if i did. i'll try to explain. first of all, it isn't accurate to categorize anyone as first or second class, let alone jnanis. i distinguish their difference in terms of effectiveness as teachers, in terms of the numbers people they are capable of adapting their jnana to, as well as their mental equipment alloted in their given incarnation. for example, there are jnanis that don't speak at all, rather give what is called mounadiksha (initiation through silence), and some of these have no contact with people at all, who dwell strictly solitary...yet radiate their love and wisdom purely on the psychic plane. there are other jnanis who are narrowly suited to particular personality types; who aren't intellectually adaptable to other religious or cultural milieus. the source of many misconceptions is based on the assumption that the jnani is someone who knows and understands everything there is to know and understand about the psychological behavior patterns of the human mind in all conceivable [relative] settings. as far as jesus and buddha are concerned, their teachings have been grossly distorted by their respective traditional followings, which are incidentally the polar opposite of the message they taught. for example, both ramana and ramakrishna (who i would classify as jagatgurus) understood clearly the teachings of jesus and buddha. i quite appreciate nisargadatta as well as ramesh, who both imparted *extraordinary* insights in clear and decisive language. however, as far as i can tell, they also tended to veer off onto tangents involving 'mental gymnastics' (i.e. attempts to crystalize theories re free will and cosmogenesis) --for purposes suited to select audiences(!), with however the consequence that leaves them sounding exclusive...since they rarely if ever integrated the metaphysics of other 'schools.' it's impossible to elucidate this effectively in a forum such as this. if what i said here doesn't help clarify the former, again i must apologize. i believe i could express this clearer, but to be honest the state of my health compromises the process. in fact, i'm not sure how much longer i can continue as a member on this List...since i'm inspired to write often, but have been paying the price lately more and more. my website discusses what i'm refering to. if you're interested, see: http://www.geocities.com/egodust/fmpagebio1.html peace in ONE, frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2000 Report Share Posted August 26, 2000 Dear F.Maiello, Your post has made me a bit confused. You seem to distinguish between first-class jnanis, what you call "jagatgurus (world teachers) like ramana, sankara, vedavyasa, vasishtha, jesus, buddha, etc." on the one hand, and on the other the "so-called neo-vedantins" like ramesh, nisargadatta, poonjaji, gangaji, who "are not effective gurus". This baffles me. I had thought that either one is enlightened or not. Without degrees. And once enlightenment happens, all false ideas are dropped, as one's mind merges with the Self. Reading you I get the impression that you don't recognise Ramesh and Nisargadatta as true advaita gurus. Is this so? To me they are the two clearest teachers I've found so far. You seem to prefer jagatgurus like Jesus or Buddha. I don't like either of them, least of all the first. Out of respect for his followers (some of whom might be among the members of the List), I won't say the aspects of his doctrine I can't accept. Just this: he never said any of the things which advaita holds. He never said that we are not our bodies. He never said that Consciousness is all there is. He never said that we are That. He never said that the world is an illusion. The same can be said of Buddha. He never said any of these things which are precisely the reason why I follow Advaita and not buddhism or christianity. Yet, according to you, these two are jagatgurus, while Nisargadatta is not. You leave me perplexed. Miguel-Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2000 Report Share Posted August 27, 2000 Gregory Goode wrote: > > Hey frank-ji, > > I'm sorry to hear about the state of your health, and hadn't known anything > about it. I'll be glad of the time you can spend here on the list, while > also knowing that if you cannot participate, nevertheless, all is well, all > around. > > Om! thanks greg! beautiful. wow, just last night i read a passage similar to what you said! idea *perfectly* aligned! symbolizing how impeccably true it is. as ever, in OM! frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2000 Report Share Posted August 28, 2000 Hey frank-ji, I'm sorry to hear about the state of your health, and hadn't known anything about it. I'll be glad of the time you can spend here on the list, while also knowing that if you cannot participate, nevertheless, all is well, all around. Om! --Greg At 12:58 PM 8/26/00 -0400, f. maiello wrote: i believe i could express this clearer, but to be honest the state of my health compromises the process. in fact, i'm not sure how much longer i can continue as a member on this List...since i'm inspired to write often, but have been paying the price lately more and more. my website discusses what i'm refering to. if you're interested, see: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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