[ChinmayaSatsang] Feed Back on Brahmasuutra Notes

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadaji:

 

Sorry for the delayed feed back.

 

I enjoy the postings but do not get a chance to read through all. A

shorter version will be most welcome. My feelings in this matter are

similar to those voiced by Sri Srinivas Nagulapalli.

 

Thanks, Raghu G. Nath

Vienna, VA

==========================

 

FEED BACK ON oNOTES ON BRAHMASUUTRA-So

 

In Brahmasuutra notes, we just completed the discussion on Adhyaasa

bhashhyam and will be entering into the discussion of the sutra-s in

two

weeks. Since the number of people participating in the discussions are

few,

there is a feeling that not many are interested in the notes. I would

like

a feed back from all the readers to see to what level I should continue

the

notes. I request all readers who are studying the notes along with me

to

respond frankly and freely so that I will have some idea who the

readers are

and to what extent it is catered to their needs. The objective of the

notes

is primarily for my own learning secondarily to share with others who

want

to study the notes with me. References and discussions are provided

using

ShankaraAEs texts and hopefully the study of the notes will establish

firmly

our understanding of advaita Vedanta. I was hoping there would be in

put

from other knowledgeable scholars on the topic of notes so that

Internet

could be a very good vehicle to learn from each other. This of course

 

requires commitment of time and effort, which is a luxury for many in

the

busy world. But I firmly believe that sharing of our knowledge with

others

is essential aspect of our growing up, and we enrich ourselves in that

 

process. If you are studying or stopped studying after few notes, I

would

like to hear from you too. Here are few questions I prepared but you

can

provide your input in any other way. Positive or negative comments, I

will

like to hear from you. I will like to hear your lack of interest in

the

notes too so that I am conscious of what percentage of readers I am

catering

the notes for. If I donAEt hear from you, I will assume that you have

no

interest even in responding to the questionnaire.

 

1. I have been studying the notes regularly __ yes __ no.

 

2. I had previous background of Vedanta ___ yes ___ no

 

3. I had previous background of Brahmasuutra ____yes ___no

 

4. Clarity of the Notes ___ Very Clear

____ so -so

____ not clear

 

5. Use of Sanskrit ____ Helpful for the notes

____ obstructing the flow of logic

____ can be ignored and notes is still

clear

 

6. Sanskrit ____ completely should be excluded

_____ should be decreased to help my

study

_____ continue at the current pace

since

it helps me to learn Sanskrit as

well.

_____ I enjoy the Sanskrit part too.

7. I stopped reading the notes, because

_____ I last interest

____ I donAEt have time now, saving it for later study

____ Sanskrit turned me off. If there is no Sanskrit I

will start

the study again.

 

8. The notes: ____ logically presented.

____ logic is not clear

____ too much emphasis on logic

 

9. The notes ____ Too detailed

____ detailed but helpful to understand the logic

____ should be condensed to a bear minimum

____ should be more detailed

 

10 The notes ____ should be continued at the same pace

____ should be continued twice a week

____ should be continued one in two weeks

____ should be discontinued

 

11. General comments uPlease feel free to express them - about the

contents, quality and problems and suggestions for improvement.

 

Ravi - please forward this to advaitaL- list since I donot have access

to

the address from here. Thanks.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Vikram Prabhu of ChinmayaSatsangh wrote:

 

Dear members of the satsangh group,

 

My frank comments are as following:

 

Bhramha Sutras are very precious and along with the Upanishads impart

the highest Truth. But they are very old and the presentation of the

philosophy in them may be boring to most of the present audience.

Advaita Vedanta as taught by Ramana Maharshi may be more practical

for the present generation. What is the use of discussing topic of

Vedanta?

 

Is it not better to apply Vichara? Sit in a quiet place and OBSERVE

the MIND. The thoughts come and go. Like the ocean. The waves come and go.

But in this observation the frequency of the thoughts will subside. A day

will come when

one can SEE the empty mind. Realize that I, AM the SEER

WITNESSING the mind. The space between these thoughts is

my true nature. I am that EMPTINESS. Call it Bhraman,Atman, Shunya,

Shabd and so on.

 

Vairagya (renunciation of kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada ,matsarya and

I and mine) Compassion (like Gautama Buddha's compassion for all living

beings) and Abhyasa (persistant practice) will make it possible to one day

experience the Truth. (that I am That, all this is only is a manifestation

of That)

 

Most Hindus want to do good deeds, pray to gods and goddesses and want

FRUITS of this devotion. Very few want only GOD . These few are the seekers.

Very few among these can accept GOD as NIRGUNA BHRAHMAN and that

the ultimate truth is that THAT alone IS. Only these few are candidates

for the practice of Advaita.

 

These comments are submitted with all humility in the spirit that all

knowledge

is ignorance and only Experience of Atman is true Knowledge.

 

Regards

Vikram Prabhu

 

-----------------------

 

Thanks Vikram for your frank comments.

 

As I understand:

 

First concerning Brahmasuutra and my notes related to it.

 

As outlined in the first post – study of Brahmasuutra is not necessary for a

sadhak. One can learn much from Bhagavad Geeta and many prakaraNa granthaas

and prepare oneself for contemplation. Study of Brahmasuutra is for deeper

study of the scriptures – it is to insure one self understanding of the

nature of the human problem and solution to that problem. It outlines the

Vedanta and provides a coherent picture of the nature of Brahman. By

examining various counter arguments (puurvapaksha-s) and arriving at logical

conclusion based on the scripture is very important for an earnest seeker.

Vyabhicaara dosha or wagering mind is one of the fundamental problems for a

sadhak. One major source for this is lack of firm understanding of the

nature of the problem and the goal. One is not firmly convinced in the

advaitic state of the reality. It is like a bhakta who says I have faith in

the Lord yet he worries for every small thing when things do not go as he

desires.

 

Shankara addresses the issue, as you will see in the notes that follow, -

the question of why even though so many study Vedanta, but very few have

realized. ShravaNa is only one aspect. In most cases, the student is not

prepared in terms of four fold qualifications required and further there is

significant pressure from unsublimed Vasana-s. Hence Mananam and

Nidhidhyaasanam are important. Reflection along the lines indicted by

Vedanta is true mananam and contemplation on the truth expounded by Vedanta

in the direction indicated with the understanding of the swaruupa and

tatasta LakshaNa of Brahman is the Nidhidhyaasana. For that any Vedantic

study will help including the study of the Brahmasuutra. Hence the study of

Brahmasuutra is not essential but helpful for the goal since it not only

makes the goal and the means clear but also helps one to contemplate on the

nature of reality as illustrated by adhyaasa bhaashhyam of Shankara.

 

Next Brahmasuutra is old and other texts are new and more relevant is not

correct. The topic of Brahmasuutra is Brahman and it is beyond time

concept. What is discussed is eternally new or eternal truth relevant all

the time. The discussion can be about the theory or about the objections

based on some theory presented by earlier thinkers. But the logic is as

relevant to the modern times as it was at the old time. The analysis is

about the fundamental human problem that encompasses all times zones. Hence

what is discussed in the sutra is as relevant today as it was thousand years

ago and will be relevant to thousands of years into the future.

 

Confusion about Bhagavaan Ramana Maharshi’s texts: Bhagavaan Ramana’s

teaching is not different from Vedanta teaching as discussed in

Brahmasuutra. Seeking an answer to ‘who am I’ is an inquiry and not just

repetition or japa of “who am I”. If I have no knowledge of Vedanta, answer

to my question of ‘who am I’ will end up with what I know of I or whom I

think I am – a dull, ignorant, egotistical entity that I think I am. What

Bhagavaan emphasizes is not repetition of who am I, but inquiry using

Vedanta teaching. Vedanta is the vehicle for the inquiry of who I am. The

problem of inquiry will be successful if we first understand who we are not,

or who we think we are. That is what Adhyaasa Bhaashhyam of Shankara is all

about. Only people with superficial understanding of Bhagavaan Ramana will

declare that his teaching is different from Vedanta and his is a straight

path different from Vedanta. Without the Vedantic understanding of the

problem, aatma vichaara will lead one to no where. Bhagavaan Ramana might

have put it in simple looking statements but what he advises one to do is

time tested Vedantic analysis of Brahman inquiry or Self-inquiry.

 

Advaita is not something to practice it is something to realize. Any

practice involves dvaita, since a seeker has already assumed that he is

different from the sought. What advaita Vedanta does is to re-educate us in

terms of the nature of the goal or Brahman, nature of ourselves and identity

of the two. Since adhyaasa is based on ignorance, knowledge of the reality

is the only solution and that is what Brahmasuutra is all about, what

Vedanta is all about, what all sadhana is all about and what Bhagavaan

Ramana’s teaching is all about.

 

In principle the study of Bhagavad Geeta and contemplation on the teaching

is sufficient for an earnest seeker. But the mind being what it is it, it

gets into a groove of mechanical thinking. Hence Vedanta provides a larger

field to contemplate on. Brahmasuutra being a Nyaaya prastaana, it provides

a feast for the intellect to contemplate on.

 

There seems to be some misunderstanding that Brahasuutra being intellectual

is different from the contemplative path or vichaara and one should

concentrate on the later for saadhana. Any inquiry is intellectual. Only

with intellect we inquire of the nature of the reality. That is the only

instrument we have. With the intellect we have to go beyond the intellect –

like pole waltz. Without the pole you cannot play. Vedanta only teaches us

how to direct our intellects and to what heights it has to reach before one

glides into the truth.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

To bolster Sadaji's cogent response, here are a few thoughts:

 

1. subhaashhitam:

 

na chorahaaryam It cannot be stolen by thieves,

na cha raajahaaryam Nor can it be taken away by kings.

na bhraatR^ibhaajyam It cannot be divided among brothers

na cha bhaarakaari | and.. It does not cause a load

vyaye kR^ite on your shoulders.

vardhata eva nityam If spent..

vidyaadhanam It indeed always keeps growing.

sarvadhanapradhaanam.h || The wealth of knowledge..

Is the most superior wealth of all!

 

2. Prayer:

 

durjanaH sajjano bhuuyaat.h . May the wicked become virtuous.

sajjannaH shhaantimaapnuyaat.h .May the virtuous gain serenity.

shaanto muchyeta bandhebhyo . May the tranquil be free of bondage

muktashchaanyaanvimochayet.h .. May the free liberate others.

 

3. Gita: X:9

 

machchitaa madgatapraaNaa bodhayantaH parasparam.h .

kathayantashcha maa.n nitya.n tushhyanti cha ramanti cha ..

 

Their thoughts fixed in Me, their lives given up to Me, enlightening

each other and ever conversing of Me, they are contented and

rejoicing in Me.

 

4. Kathopanishad: shikshaa-valli-

 

I:ii:1

svaadhyaaya-pravachanaabhyaa.n na pramaditavyam.h .

 

Let there be no neglect of study and teaching.

 

I:ii:6 :

eshha aadeshaH . eshha upadeshaH . eshha vedopanishhat.h . etad

anushaasanam.h . evamupaasitavyam.h . evamu chaitadupaasyam.h ..

 

This is the command. This is the teaching. This is the secret

doctrine of the Veda. This is the instruction. Thus should one

worship. Thus indeed should one worship.

 

Ramana Maharshi lived these teachings to the fullest.

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin , "Kuntimaddi Sadananda"

<k_sadananda@h...> wrote:

> Vikram Prabhu of ChinmayaSatsangh wrote:

>

> Dear members of the satsangh group,

>

> My frank comments are as following:

>

> Bhramha Sutras are very precious and along with the Upanishads

impart

> the highest Truth. But they are very old and the presentation of

the

> philosophy in them may be boring to most of the present audience.

> Advaita Vedanta as taught by Ramana Maharshi may be more practical

> for the present generation. What is the use of discussing topic of

> Vedanta?

>

> Is it not better to apply Vichara? Sit in a quiet place and OBSERVE

> the MIND. The thoughts come and go. Like the ocean. The waves come

and go.

> But in this observation the frequency of the thoughts will subside.

A day

> will come when

> one can SEE the empty mind. Realize that I, AM the SEER

> WITNESSING the mind. The space between these thoughts is

> my true nature. I am that EMPTINESS. Call it Bhraman,Atman, Shunya,

> Shabd and so on.

>

> Vairagya (renunciation of kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada ,matsarya

and

> I and mine) Compassion (like Gautama Buddha's compassion for all

living

> beings) and Abhyasa (persistant practice) will make it possible to

one day

> experience the Truth. (that I am That, all this is only is a

manifestation

> of That)

>

> Most Hindus want to do good deeds, pray to gods and goddesses and

want

> FRUITS of this devotion. Very few want only GOD . These few are the

seekers.

> Very few among these can accept GOD as NIRGUNA BHRAHMAN and that

> the ultimate truth is that THAT alone IS. Only these few are

candidates

> for the practice of Advaita.

>

> These comments are submitted with all humility in the spirit that

all

> knowledge

> is ignorance and only Experience of Atman is true Knowledge.

>

> Regards

> Vikram Prabhu

>

> -----------------------

>

> Thanks Vikram for your frank comments.

>

> As I understand:

>

> First concerning Brahmasuutra and my notes related to it.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

CORRECTION:

 

The last quotation is from Taittiriya Upanishad, NOT Katha. Sorry!

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

advaitin , "sunder hattangadi" <sunderh@h...> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> To bolster Sadaji's cogent response, here are a few thoughts:

>

> 1. subhaashhitam:

>

> na chorahaaryam It cannot be stolen by thieves,

> na cha raajahaaryam Nor can it be taken away by

kings.

> na bhraatR^ibhaajyam It cannot be divided among

brothers

> na cha bhaarakaari | and.. It does not cause a load

> vyaye kR^ite on your shoulders.

> vardhata eva nityam If spent..

> vidyaadhanam It indeed always keeps growing.

> sarvadhanapradhaanam.h || The wealth of knowledge..

> Is the most superior wealth of

all!

>

> 2. Prayer:

>

> durjanaH sajjano bhuuyaat.h . May the wicked become virtuous.

> sajjannaH shhaantimaapnuyaat.h .May the virtuous gain serenity.

> shaanto muchyeta bandhebhyo . May the tranquil be free of

bondage

> muktashchaanyaanvimochayet.h .. May the free liberate others.

>

> 3. Gita: X:9

>

> machchitaa madgatapraaNaa bodhayantaH parasparam.h .

> kathayantashcha maa.n nitya.n tushhyanti cha ramanti cha ..

>

> Their thoughts fixed in Me, their lives given up to Me,

enlightening

> each other and ever conversing of Me, they are contented and

> rejoicing in Me.

>

> 4. Kathopanishad: shikshaa-valli-

>

> I:ii:1

> svaadhyaaya-pravachanaabhyaa.n na pramaditavyam.h .

>

> Let there be no neglect of study and teaching.

>

> I:ii:6 :

> eshha aadeshaH . eshha upadeshaH . eshha vedopanishhat.h . etad

> anushaasanam.h . evamupaasitavyam.h . evamu chaitadupaasyam.h ..

>

> This is the command. This is the teaching. This is the secret

> doctrine of the Veda. This is the instruction. Thus should one

> worship. Thus indeed should one worship.

>

> Ramana Maharshi lived these teachings to the fullest.

>

> Regards,

>

> s.

>

>

>

>

>

> advaitin , "Kuntimaddi Sadananda"

> <k_sadananda@h...> wrote:

> > Vikram Prabhu of ChinmayaSatsangh wrote:

> >

> > Dear members of the satsangh group,

> >

> > My frank comments are as following:

> >

> > Bhramha Sutras are very precious and along with the Upanishads

> impart

> > the highest Truth. But they are very old and the presentation of

> the

> > philosophy in them may be boring to most of the present audience.

> > Advaita Vedanta as taught by Ramana Maharshi may be more practical

> > for the present generation. What is the use of discussing topic of

> > Vedanta?

> >

> > Is it not better to apply Vichara? Sit in a quiet place and

OBSERVE

> > the MIND. The thoughts come and go. Like the ocean. The waves

come

> and go.

> > But in this observation the frequency of the thoughts will

subside.

> A day

> > will come when

> > one can SEE the empty mind. Realize that I, AM the SEER

> > WITNESSING the mind. The space between these thoughts is

> > my true nature. I am that EMPTINESS. Call it Bhraman,Atman,

Shunya,

> > Shabd and so on.

> >

> > Vairagya (renunciation of kama, krodha, lobha, moha,

mada ,matsarya

> and

> > I and mine) Compassion (like Gautama Buddha's compassion for all

> living

> > beings) and Abhyasa (persistant practice) will make it possible

to

> one day

> > experience the Truth. (that I am That, all this is only is a

> manifestation

> > of That)

> >

> > Most Hindus want to do good deeds, pray to gods and goddesses and

> want

> > FRUITS of this devotion. Very few want only GOD . These few are

the

> seekers.

> > Very few among these can accept GOD as NIRGUNA BHRAHMAN and that

> > the ultimate truth is that THAT alone IS. Only these few are

> candidates

> > for the practice of Advaita.

> >

> > These comments are submitted with all humility in the spirit that

> all

> > knowledge

> > is ignorance and only Experience of Atman is true Knowledge.

> >

> > Regards

> > Vikram Prabhu

> >

> > -----------------------

> >

> > Thanks Vikram for your frank comments.

> >

> > As I understand:

> >

> > First concerning Brahmasuutra and my notes related to it.

> >

[Guest guest]

-Sri Sadanandaji wrote:

>If I have no knowledge of Vedanta, answer

> to my question of ‘who am I’ will end up >with what I know of I or

whom I

> think I am – a dull, ignorant, egotistical >entity that I think I

am.

 

My understanding is, this is true only for a person who is incapable of any

discrimination.

Sri Ramana Bhagavan Himself had no knowledge of vedanta when he realized

Himself. He later explained various texts only after being asked by devotees.

In "Self Enquiry" Sri Bhagavan says that Self enquiry is for the Ripe aspirant.

Such an aspirant need not know any vedanta. Rather Self enquiry will bring out

the knowledge of Vedanta.

My personal feeling is that while explaining abstruse points such as the

BrahmaSutras, one needs to refer to appropriate anecdotes to enforce the point

being made.

In this regard I feel that the best text on Advaita Vedanta is the Yoga

Vashista.

 

Sincerely,

Anand

 

 

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