Devotion

[Guest guest]

Dear Ones,

 

I've met the following problem and I hope that whoever is a sincere God-seeker.

(Of course all of you !!) can help me. I am naturally an intellectual type and

also a meditator. Recently I was told that I should develop more devotion

towards the Divine in order to come closer to God. Always have devotion to the

Divine. Oke.

But now you see the problem: I naturally begin to think of this how to solve it,

how to become more devoted towards the Divine. But this is a contradiction.

Bhakti is a tendency of the heart to have feelings of devotion towards the

Divine. It's not an intellectual affair which can be solved by the intellect.

It's the well-known heart vs head "problem".

As you all know Shankara was also a great mystic and poet and thus had also

complete "heart-realization".

Now so:

How can I develop more devotion??

The saying of it and thinking is not the same as actually being devoted.

So: Who can shed some light on this problem, I will be happy to hear from you!!

 

Robin.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari Om Robin:

 

The questions that you raised occur to all of us

sometime in many forms. Everyone including me can't

give you a satisfactory answer because, "saying of it

and thinking of it is not the same as actually being

devoted!"

 

Your thought process and your approach to the question

of Devotion is profound and it seems that you have

clearly understood what Devotion is and I agree that

it is almost impossible to describe it in intellectual

terms. The NIKE Ad., "Just Do It" is the best solution

to your question. To just do it, we need faith,

conviction and determination (shraddha). When we just

do It, we follow the Yagna Spirit (practice of Karma

Yoga, Gita, Chapter 2, verse 47) and demonstrate our

devotion to Him.

 

Unfortunately, we are trapped within the Vicious Cycle

of Life - success, failure, overexcitement,

disappointments, joy, sorrow, etc. The only way to get

out of this cycle is to develop an attitude of no

expectation. Only with the grace of the Lord, we can

achieve an attitude of no expecation. The only way to

get His grace is to serve the humanity with love and

respect! Our Devotion to Him requires His Grace. We

once again come back to the 'egg and chicken' puzzle

with no intellectually appealing solution.

Essentially, what you have concluded is quite

appropriate - Devotion can't be understood through

intellectual means.

 

The answer to the question, what is devotion? can be

found in Gita, Chapter 12 (Devotion and

Contemplation).

The profound answer is stated by the Lord in verse 4:

"By restraining all senses, being even minded in all

conditions, rejoicing in the welfare of creatures,

they come to Me (Dr. Radhakrishnan's translation). Sri

Radhakrishnan points out many quotations related to

devotion:

1. Prayer from Mahabharat: " Who would tell me the

sacred way by which I might enter into all the

suffering hearts and take all their suffering on

myself for now and for ever."

2. St. John: " By the visible aspect of our thoughts

must be drawn up in a spiritual fight and rise to the

invisible majesty of God."

3. TukAram: "That man is true who taketh to his bosom

the afficted."

4. Avadhuutagita: "How can I bow to him who has

thought Himself by Himself and in Himself filled up

everything?"

5. Gandhiji, Songs from Prison, 129:

"In such a man,

Dwelleth, augustly present,

God Himself;

The heart of such a man is filed abrim

With pity, gentleness and love;

He taketh the forsaken for his own."

6. Tulsidas author of a version of Ramayana:

"Grant me, O Master, by thy grace

To follow all the good and pure,

To be content with simple things;

To use my fellows not as means but ends

To serve them stalwartly, in thought, word, deed;

Never to utter word of hatred or of shame:

To cast away all selfishness and pride:

To speak no ill of others

To have a mind at peace,

Set free from care, and led astray from thee

Neither by happiness nor woe;

Set thou my feet upon this path,

And keep me steadfast in it,

Thus only shall I please thee, serve thee right."

 

The greatest Role-Model Devotee is Hanuman of Ramayana

and we can understand Devotion through him. Shri

Hanuman with strong body and great intellect was a

humble servant to Shri Ram. Strong conviction is an

integral part of the realization of SELF. The

following example from a book illustrates how a

person

with strong conviction can find a way to get out of

the prison enclosed by the body, mind and intellect.

This example was originally stated by Sri Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa. (Reference: Essentials of Hinduism, by V.

Krishnamurthy (1989), Narosa Publishing House, New

Delhi. Page 136.)

 

Shri Ram asked Hanuman, What is your attitude toward

me?

How do you look upon, think of and worship me?

 

Hanuman replied, Oh Lord:

 

When I am conscious of my body, when I feel I am this

visible body and I have the conviction that thou art

the Lord and I am thy servant. Thou art to be served

and I am one to serve.

 

When I am conscious of my self as the individual self,

one with the mind, the intellect and the soul, I have

the strong conviction that thou art the whole and I am

thy part.

 

When I remain in Samadhi, in the mood that I am the

Pure SELF devoid of all qualifying adjuncts, I have

the conviction that I am also verily that which Thou

art. Thou and I are one, there is no difference

whatsoever between Thou and I.

 

The first part of Hanuman's answer stresses his

attitude to serve (Karma Yoga). The second part

focuses on the surrender attitude (Bhakti Yoga).

The final part of the answer confirms the

inseparability or non-duality (Jnana Yoga).

 

Your question "Who can shed some light on this

problem?" is similar to the question "who can open my

eyes?" The answer to both the questions is "Just You."

The light is always present and we some how don't want

to open our eyes to enjoy the light. We experience

darkness due to our ignorance and when shred our

ignorance, we can indeed the everpresent light!"

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

Robin Hers writes:

> How can I develop more devotion??

> The saying of it and thinking is not the same as >

actually being devoted.

> So: Who can shed some light on this problem,

> I will be happy to hear from you!!

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Robin Hers wrote:

> Dear Ones,

>

> I've met the following problem and I hope that whoever is a sincere

God-seeker. (Of course all of you !!) can help me. I am naturally an

intellectual type and also a meditator. Recently I was told that I should

develop more devotion towards the Divine in order to come closer to God. Always

have devotion to the Divine. Oke.

> But now you see the problem: I naturally begin to think of this how to solve

it, how to become more devoted towards the Divine. But this is a contradiction.

Bhakti is a tendency of the heart to have feelings of devotion towards the

Divine. It's not an intellectual affair which can be solved by the intellect.

It's the well-known heart vs head "problem".

> As you all know Shankara was also a great mystic and poet and thus had also

complete "heart-realization".

> Now so:

> How can I develop more devotion??

> The saying of it and thinking is not the same as actually being devoted.

> So: Who can shed some light on this problem, I will be happy to hear from

you!!

>

> Robin.

>

>

 

namaste.

 

I do not know if I can qualify myself to address this topic, but

let me try anyway.

 

YOU are always close to God, whether you realize that truth or not.

And that nearness to God is always there whether one knows it or not.

So, our striving is basically to have that knowledge that we are

close to God, although we think our striving is to be closer to God.

So, what is required is not to become more devoted to the divine

(it does not matter to the divine whether you are more devoted or

less devoted; the divine is always close to YOU) but to have the

knowledge that YOU are the divine. You have to realize the

distinction between the you and the YOU. The you, the jIvA that

identifies with the body, mind, thoughts, intellect and individuality

is not the YOU, the divine.

 

shri shankara says in vAkyavR^itti

 

deheNdriya manaH prANAhaMkr^tibhyo vilakshaNaH

projghitAsheShaShaDbhAvavikAraH tvaM padAbhidaH

 

The indicative meaning of tvaM (YOU) is that which

is totally distinct from the body, the senses, mind,

prANa and ego; that which is absolutely free from

the six modifications which material things must

necessarily undergo; that is the indicative

meaning of tvaM (YOU).

 

 

That knowledge (that YOU are the divine) will dawn on its own,

irrespective of your effort, if you are pure of heart.

 

I do not see it as a heart vs head problem either. The heart and

the head are the same. If the solution that the head suggests comes

from the heart (and if the heart is pure), you have reached that

divine state.

 

The question then is: can the jIvA, the misapprehended SELF, do

anything to be closer to God than what he/she really is? If the

jIvA (the you) wishes to recognize the sameness with the divine,

the jIvA has to purify him/herself. So, drop off the you and

become YOU.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

Namaste Robin,

 

It may be called a law of Nature that ripeness and maturity

progress at different rates in different parts of a fruit, or of a

personality.

 

Intellectuals have more 'devotion' in them than they are aware

of or admit to; and devotees have more 'knowledge' than they care to

admit!

 

As the goal of both is the same, Truth-Reality-Self &c., it is

not fruitful to inquire why one is not 'developing' in a particular

direction. The Self knows what you need and your sincerity in any

approach [what in sanskrit is called 'nishhThaa'] will accomplish the

necessary task effortlessly. Devotion to Salf is 'aatma-nishhThaa".

 

Swami Vivekananda used to carry only two books with him: the

Gita, and Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

 

One can choose any work by a devotee that one feels close to,

and immerse oneself in her/his thoughts.

 

One classic that you may want to try is 'The Way of a

Pilgrim', by an anonymous Russian peasant, now available in 2 English

translations.

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

 

 

advaitin , "Robin Hers" <robin.hers@c...> wrote:

> Dear Ones,

>

> I've met the following problem

[Guest guest]

>Dear Ones,

>

>I've met the following problem and I hope that whoever is a sincere

>God-seeker. (Of course all of you !!) can help me. I am naturally an

>intellectual type and also a meditator. Recently I was told that I should

>develop more devotion towards the Divine in order to come closer to God.

>Always have devotion to the Divine. Oke. But now you see the problem: I

>naturally begin to think of this how to solve it, how to become more

>devoted towards the Divine. But this is a contradiction. Bhakti is a

>tendency of the heart to have feelings of devotion towards the Divine. It's

>not an intellectual affair which can be solved by the intellect. It's the

>well-known heart vs head "problem". As you all know Shankara was also a

>great mystic and poet and thus had also complete "heart-realization". Now

>so: How can I develop more devotion?? The saying of it and thinking is not

>the same as actually being devoted. So: Who can shed some light on this

>problem, I will be happy to hear from you!!

>

>Robin.

 

 

Dear Robin

 

You may be surprised - true devotion is not emotional - it is actually

intellectual. Since you say you are intellectual you are already a devotee.

What does intellectual means? Intellect is one, which questions for

rational explanation. When the intellect cannot come up with a rational

explanation that is where true wonder starts. True devotion starts.

 

Look at the cosmos. Look at the order in the cosmos - from planetary motion

to galaxies and supergalaxies and the intellect cannot comprehend any more

the magnitude of the universe neither the universal laws and the operation

of these to minutest details - the very questioning intellect goes blank in

trying to comprehend that which is beyond the comprehension. Any ordered

system has low entropy and work has to be expended to create such an order

and to keep it in that order. It can not be done by just random process

since the laws governing the cosmic system are universal. You can but

admire that power which is source for such incredible order in the unlimited

ever expanding limitless universe and your intellect cannot but bow down to

that superior intelligence - and that is true devotion.

 

Look at your own body - millions of cells - all precisely located, every

limb and every organ function in its own sphere and yet all perfectly

synchronized to a perfect order. We just dump something into our stomach.

But what happens to the food as it goes into the stomach - the gastric

juices, the enzymes of the right type and right order have to act for the

digestion to continue. The digestive system, the circulatory system, the

distribution system - the excretory system everything functions so beautiful

without our input. What an incredible machine the body is. We cannot make an

outside mechanical pump function without a problem for more than two years -

as one experiences with their cars etc. But look at the marvelous pump made

of mussels and tissues pumping day in and day out whether we are awake or

asleep. The process is beyond intellectual comprehension. We donot know

what life is - yet its manifestation makes just organic matter to enliven to

the degree that it is nothing short of a miracle. If there is a creator or

if there is a superior intelligence in the universe, I do not need any

further proof than what I see - a human being, a misquito, a small bug, an

ant or single cell or even a DNA who incredible information about the whole

human being is stored in an embryo and how it can multiply itself to produce

such a complex systems. My intellect goes blank - that is the devotion.

 

You see devotion is not emotional display of feelings but natural emotional

expressions that arise as a result of intellectual appreciation. Intellect

cannot but appreciate the incredible order and beauty in the universal

systems which religions call it as creation. One cannot but admire looking

at a tree, looking a flower, looking at a simple leaf - His signature, His

glory, His presence. That is the true devotion. Recognizing His presence

everywhere - from tinniest bug to gigantic beings, love of a mother to a

child, growth of baby to adult - life is incredible - Watching the life

itself is a greatest entertainment one can have if one is sensitive.

Everyone is selfishly looking after oneself - a local disturbances in the

total order - yet that is the part of the beauty - everyone is selfish yet

at the grandeur level that is all within the order. I get greatest

entertainment watching people, particularly sitting in the airports and when

I have nothing else to do. It is amazing how people run around each

concerned with himself and how people try to get what they want or what one

thinks he deserves - conflicting each other and complaining about others.

Everyone feels their problems are most severe - yet the whole universe moves

forward - in perfect harmony. Thousands of years ago, people must have the

same problems - how to raise their children how to cope up with competition,

how to make more at the expense of others - Each one thinking their problems

are the most severe - Some crying for departed souls - some celebrating for

the arrival of new ones - some enjoying their good luck while others cursing

for their bad luck - yet everything is in order - Same thing thousands of

years ago - same thing now and same thing will be there thousands of years

from now - Everything is in order - some complain that is also part of the

order - some cause others to complain that is also part of the order - Just

stand back and enjoy the tamaashha or entertainment - you cannot but marvel

at His incredible play - just stand apart and enjoy - that is devotion.

 

You see devotion is not sitting and praying some imaginary forms or concepts

- but admire the beauty of creation and joy of life. That is devotion and

that is mediation - you donot want to change the system you do not want

things to be different from what they are - you just stand apart and see the

incredible play going on - that is devotion. For this, one needs incredible

intellectual observation - not a sharp intellect that divides but subtle

intellect that integrates - in sanskrit it is suukshma (subtle) budhhi in

contrast to tiikshNa buddhi (sharp intellect). In Kenopanishad - the true

devotion is defined beautifully: I will give only the English version:

"That which the mind cannot think, but because of which the mind has the

capacity to think that alone is Brahman not this that you worship"

"that which the speech cannot speak, but because of which one has the

capacity to speak - that alone is Brahman not this that you worship"

"that which the eyes cannot see, but because of which the eyes have the

capacity to see - that alone is Brahman not this that you worship"

"that which the ears cannot hear but because of which the ears have the

capacity to hear - that alone is Brahman not this that you worship"

 

Devotion to that is true meditation - that is where the intellect inquiry

goes stand still at the altar of the Almighty - And that is true

surrenderance and true devotion.

 

Hence you have the right equipment to develop devotion. In fact you are

more blessed provide you direct your mind into right understanding of the

nature of the truth - And that is what is being discussed as the inquiry of

Brahman in the Brahmasuutra bhaashhya.

 

Seeking of God is understanding of God - One understands when one realizes

that there is not more to understand and there is no more to seek and that

is true devotion and true surrenderance - where one is no more there to

understand or to seek - he has surrendered to HIM.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

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[Guest guest]

This is such a nice prayer !!!

 

Can anyone point out the exact shloka (chapter, verse, etc) in ramayana

which is quoted in Ram Chandran's mail below. I was impressed by it and I

would like to read it in the original.

 

Thanks in advance.

>

> Ram Chandran [sMTP:ramvchandran]

> Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:30 AM

> Advaitin List

> Re: Devotion

>

> 6. Tulsidas author of a version of Ramayana:

> "Grant me, O Master, by thy grace

> To follow all the good and pure,

> To be content with simple things;

> To use my fellows not as means but ends

> To serve them stalwartly, in thought, word, deed;

> Never to utter word of hatred or of shame:

> To cast away all selfishness and pride:

> To speak no ill of others

> To have a mind at peace,

> Set free from care, and led astray from thee

> Neither by happiness nor woe;

> Set thou my feet upon this path,

> And keep me steadfast in it,

> Thus only shall I please thee, serve thee right."

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om:

 

This english translation of the quotation of Sri

Tulsidas is by Gandhiji and is the source is:

M.K. Gandhi: Songs from Prison (1934), P.52. I don't

know the original source and I hope that someone will

post the exact verses.

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

The complete works are at URL:

 

http://www.hindunet.org/ramayana/

 

Shri Ram Charit Manas

 

Shri Ram Charit Manas by Goswami Tulasidas was encoded in ISCII by a

group of volunteers at Ratlam. The files were converted to ITRANS

encoding for creating this devanagari version. The files were

provided to us by Sri Vineet Chaitanya vc of Indian

Institute of Information Technology, Hyderabad.

 

Indian Institute of Information Technology is working on an ISCII

plug-in for the browsers to view the texts in the Indian Language of

your choice. Please contact Vineet Chaitanya for further details.

 

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | baalakaaNDa

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | ayodhyaakaaNDa

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | araNyakaaNDa

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | kiShkindhaakaaNDa

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | sundarakaaNDa

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | lankaakaaNDa

ISCII | ITRANS | CSX | PS | XDVNG | uttarakaaNDa

 

 

Regards,

 

s.

 

 

advaitin , Ram Chandran <ramvchandran> wrote:

> Hari Om:

>

> This english translation of the quotation of Sri

> Tulsidas is by Gandhiji and is the source is:

> M.K. Gandhi: Songs from Prison (1934), P.52. I don't

> know the original source and I hope that someone will

> post the exact verses.

>

> regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Robin Hers <robin.hers wrote:

 

Dear Ones,

 

I've met the following problem and I hope that whoever is a sincere God-seeker.

(Of course all of you !!) can help me. I am naturally an intellectual type and

also a meditator

 

--\

--\

---------------------------

 

 

 

Dear Robin,

 

You say that recently you were told, “You should develop more devotion towards

the divine in order to come closer to God.”Was this statement made to you in

reply to a question you asked? If so, what was your question?

 

Being an Intellectual Type you should think about it. Why did this person tell

you to develop more devotion? Are you convinced that you are presently less

devoted to the Divine?

 

You say you are also a meditator. What is it that you meditate upon? What is it

that you are looking for as a result of your meditation?

 

Are you meditating in order to have peace of mind?

 

Are you meditating in order to be closer to God? Or

 

Are you meditating in order to have a realistion of the SELF—The DIVINE--- that

is in You?

 

Bhakti and Devotion are synonyms and should not be confused with Intellectual

Reasoning and Meditation.

 

You say, “But there is a contradiction” Actually, there is no contradiction.

It is for you to choose between

 

“Bhakti Marga” – The Path to Salvation by deep devotion and surrender to the

Divine – GOD and

 

“Gyana Marga” _ The Path to Salvation by Intellectual discrimination and

realization of the Divine – GOD.

 

Hari Om !

 

Swaminarayan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Forwarded from ChinmayaSatsangh at the reqest of Geetha

Sadananda

-----------------------------

> Here is my humble contribution for your question and hopefully has some

> practical utility: (I am replying to all as others may want to help in

> understanding it differently)

> Devotion also goes hand in hand with respect towards the object. Devotion

is

> dedication which also means "persistence in performing an activity".

> Devotion is also knowledge of the enormity of this entity called "God"-

the

> knowledge that some power or "organizing entity" has created all that (as

> explained in the answer to the questions raised)

> In this case (pertaining to the questions raised below) if one is seeking

> "God" or the "Divine", in my opinion, one must try not to (for want of a

> better word i am coining this word) "objectualize" the sought. I am not

sue

> one will ever find a destination point which signals the end of the

seeking.

> Therefore, have the knowledge that there is a "Force" that is bigger than

> anyone being that holds one spell bound -awe of all things created the way

> we mortals know it-, have the respect towards all of that (which is why we

> say that one must respect the life form in anyobject because only the

> "creator" knows the purpose and we should not willfully disturb it) which

is

> created and has a different life form than us, understand that we as

humans

> have our "role" as ordained but we cannot get hold of that "protocols"

book

> therefore the best we can do is to try and observe and integrate with the

> rest of the "Christi". The path to all this is meditation because one

> requires a condition of introversion to assimilate all this and keep

> reminding oneself that we are but a small part of the whole.

> One can integrate scientific theories, evolution, physics and biochemistry

> and psychology into all this but those are "dangerous" to get into.

> Bhakti is devotion which includes love, respect, adoration, awe and is

> associated with feelings. Knowledge is that you know what it means and

who

> or what is the object. Knowledge and Bhakti go hand in hand with each

> other. Intellectual questioning does not make one less of a seeker and

> devotion doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to exhibit it. The

> reason for the so called "meditation" is we do not find time to live the

> "bhaktiful" way in the type of day to day existence and therefore need the

> separate time to remind ourselves as to who we are.

> Thus in my opinion (as most of what I said are just my opinion and what

> works for me) don't think of a destination point that is regarded as the

end

> of the journey. None of us can or ever will know that- no one who went

> there can come back and tell you that. Contemplate on the enormity of the

> "God" entity and respect for all that you don't understand and realize

that

> that respect will bring you greater and greater understanding of the

> "divine" which is knowledge.

> Hopefully some amount of sense has come through all this. If I write more

I

> will be late for work!!

> HAri Om

> Geetha

>

> --------

--

> -------------------

> > >Dear Ones,

> > >

> > >I've met the following problem and I hope that whoever is a sincere

> > >God-seeker. (Of course all of you !!) can help me. I am naturally an

> > >intellectual type and also a meditator. Recently I was told that I

should

> > >develop more devotion towards the Divine in order to come closer to

God.

> > >Always have devotion to the Divine. Oke. But now you see the problem: I

> > >naturally begin to think of this how to solve it, how to become more

> > >devoted towards the Divine. But this is a contradiction. Bhakti is a

> > >tendency of the heart to have feelings of devotion towards the Divine.

> It's

> > >not an intellectual affair which can be solved by the intellect. It's

the

> > >well-known heart vs head "problem". As you all know Shankara was also

a

> > >great mystic and poet and thus had also complete "heart-realization".

Now

> > >so: How can I develop more devotion?? The saying of it and thinking is

> not

> > >the same as actually being devoted. So: Who can shed some light on this

> > >problem, I will be happy to hear from you!!

> > >

> > >Robin.

> >

 

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

[Guest guest]

Miguel Angel Wrote:

 

>Dear Sadananda,

>

>Your answer to Robin's question Re Devotion is one of

>the most beatiful posts I've read for a long time.

>I liked it very much when you wrote "true devotion is

>not emotional - it is actually

>intellectual". And also: "Just stand back and enjoy

>the tamaashha or entertainment - you cannot but marvel

>at His incredible play - just stand apart and enjoy -

>that is devotion."

>

>Very beautifully expressed.

>However, I've never considered myself a bhakti type,

>not even when I was still a Christian. I tend to

>consider bhakti to be a mental attitude based on

>dualism: you are a devotee of a divinity only insofar

>as you feel yourself to be separated from That and

>longing for unity with IT. But once you accept that you

>are nothing other that That, what place is there left

>for bhakti? If there is only Consciousness, if you as

>an individual entity are just imaginary, if the only

>reality in you is That, then there is no separation and

>no place for a relation of devotion between an

>imaginaty you and That.

 

Migual Angel - thanks for the kind words. When I wrote that it is Bhakti

is intellctual it is only half the truth. Intelletual bhakti is one aspect

of it for those who are extremely rationalistic. It is the appreciation of

the beauty in the nature when the intellect goes standstill since no

rationality can account for the beauty in the creation. That is when a

devotion or admiration or reverence to the supreme intellect starts. I was

brought as a VishishhTaadvaitin in my child hood with presonified God forms

but my half baked rational intellect slowly revolted to the concept. I

slowly turned into an agnostic and even athiest after getting exposed to

JK's books. After I was thoroughly confused by JK's books, I accidentally

met Swami Chinmayanandaji and was very much impressed by the rational

approch of adviata Vedanta. I undestood the role of Bhakti too. The

otherday I was watching a movie on Annamaacharya, a 14th -15th century

composer of Bhakti songs in Telugu - To my own surprise, uncontrolable

tears were rolling down my eyes- my wife was surprised too to see that I

can be that emotionl particularly when there is no reason to be. What I

was witnessing was intense the longing of a soul expressing through deep

penetrating songs. These emotions are not self-centered emotions but

emotions centered on the Self.

 

Yes without understanding bhakti can lead to fanatism. You can see this in

lot of Bhakti cults.

 

Here the understanding is not just the bookish understanding. As JK puts

it correctly - it is an understanding as an understanding as a fact and not

as understanding as an understanding as a thought. The later can lead to

different type of fanatisms - This you can see even among advaitins in the

name of being honest, one is rude. This is an intellectual arrogance

rather than intellectual humility. Intellectual bhakti should give the

intellectual humility.

 

In the final analysis - true bhakti should lead to true understanding and

true uderstanding should lead to true Bhakti. Love for the Almighty

converges to Love for oneself or pure love itself since there is no more

duality and that is the same as state of Joy. Everyone loves that which

gives happyness and love for ones own self is the discovery that one is the

very embodiment of happyness itself.

>And yet I liked what you wrote. Because you stress the

>part of intellectual understanding in devotion. I think

>that everything boils down to understanding, to clearly

>seeing the true nature of things. If you have that, you

>have everything, you lack nothing, even if you are not

>enlightened. Am I wrong?

 

That is the beginning of the enlightment. The very contended mind is the

mind free from wanting and free from longing. that is the mind that is

pure, that is the mind ready to receive the true knowledge. There one is

free from dependency and I am free because I am full, free from

limitations. Firm establishement in that state is the firm knowledge of

one self, what Bhagavaana Ramana calls as 'Brahma nishhTa or

aatamanishhTa'.

 

Those who are emotional also gain that knowledge when a proper teacher

comes to redirect that love to knowledge. The story of Bhagavaan

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is well known example.

 

I donot know if you have read the book - 'The SaintFransic of Assisi' by

the famaous Greek author - I forgot his name - complicated name. It was

one of the most beautiful books I read in terms of how love evolves into

the knowledge.

 

There is one Kerala Saintly lady - Anandamayi maa - people call her Amma.

She comes every year to this country. - a poor fishergirl, who became a

gigantic personality. but one should read her biography - it is

fascinating story. One can see what an 'understanding' means too - it is

not rational thinking but emotional surrenderance at the alter of love

leading to the very embodiment of love itslef.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

>

>Miguel Angel

>

>

>

>

>Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

>Atman and Brahman.

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K. Sadananda

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