Celibacy - upanishadic outlook

[Guest guest]

Namaste

"celibacy" is a word used primarily by westerners who

do not comprehend the much wider implication of

Brahmacharyaa in the Hindu spiritual quest. It can be

interpreted as physical, mental,intellectual and

emotional atttitude for Brahman realization.

In western spiritual tradition (Jewish,Christian and Islamic) of the

Creator and creaturea

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> wrote:

 

[A wonderful treatise that puts this discussion to rest,

definitively!]

 

Thank you Gummuluru!

 

--jody.

[Guest guest]

Hari Om Gummuluruji:

 

Namaste,

 

As always, your thorough and objective description of

Upanishadic view of Celibacy clarifies the issues

discussed over the past two weeks. Thanks for a well

articulated essay with clear answers to numerous

questions. I want to add some additional points based

on my understanding. .

The Upanishadic description of Dharmic life certainly

supports the act of procreation. One of the most

important aspects of Dharmic life is to obey and

conserve the laws of nature which include the act of

procreation. An act of procreation may inevitably

bring physical pleasure and the Rishis were probably

quite aware. All married sages have to perform the

self-designated (determined by their swadharma)

duties. An act of procreation by the Upanishadic sage

is not conducted for the sake of ‘pleasure and

enjoyment' but for bringing new life.

 

Before further discussion, we need to understand the

terms - Prakrti, Vikrti and Samskrti. Prakrti is the

inherent nature of humans, animals, plants and others.

Human feelings and urges including as hunger, thirst,

fear and desire for progeny are inherent

actions(prakrti). When some urge or desire goes out of

proportion such as over eating, over sleeping, we

disregard the control and limits of prakrti, it is

vikrti, perversion. A perverted mind (dominated by

vikrti) needs refinement and the remedial medicine is

Samskrti (culture). With the help of Samskrti

(cultural habits of discipline, dedication and

conviction) the rishis of the Upanishads kept prakrti

and prevented the intrusion of vikrti. Also the rishis

of the Upanishads followed adhyAtmic Samskrti

(spiritual culture). In modern days what we observe is

mostly bhautic Samskrti (materialistic culture). With

spiritual culture, we are able to appreciate the fact

that "Truth is beyond what is perceived by the sense

organs." In other words, sense perception is not the

only valid means of knowing what is real. The

materialistic culture will influence us to believe

what ever we experience is real. Interestingly with

adhyAtmic Samskrti, our true nature is preserved and

with bhautic Samskrti, prakrti is destroyed and

replaced with vikrti.

 

Now let us turn our attention back to the discussion

topic. The descriptions of life of sages of

Upanishads focus more on the ‘adhyAtmic Samskrti' and

self-realized souls of today or yesterday will act

according to the true nature (prakrti). Any over

indulging acts to seek pleasure and enjoyment was a

taboo during the Vedic times and should continue to be

a taboo all the time. Nature can teach us valuable

lessons on the importance of ‘prakrti.' Animals don't

overeat, oversleep or overindulge. They have a

self-protected mechanisms to keep their True Nature.

When we are self-realized, we regain our ‘Divine

Nature' and we will merge with the Nature. All our

actions then become spontaneous and our experience of

life go beyond sensual perceptions. We are then free

from all notions including those with respect to

celibacy, chastity and brahmacarya..

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Hari.H Om,

 

I wish to make here the distinction between moral life and spiritual life.

For a spiritual life, morality is essential, indeed it is the foundation.

However, one may lead a perfectly moral life without any spiritual outlook. I

would look at the quotations from the Upanishads relating to Sages living with

their spouses in this regard. It encourages morality, a step in the right

direction.

Spiritual life means living in the spirit. If you seek communion, seek divine

communion. Sri Ramakrishna said that after the birth of one or two children,

husband and wife should remain as brother and sister.

Speaking of the Upanishads, The Kathopanishad was told to Nachiketa by the Lord

Yama only after he had discarded all temptations and sense pleasures.

When one vibrates with the dance of the lord within the heart, will one

need any more delights ? Why not sacrifice our sense pleasures saying "I seek

union with the primal energy of pure consciousness and none else".

 

I give below the interpretation of Brahmacharya by Mahatma Gandhi.

 

" What is brahmacharya? It is the way of life which leads us to Brahma (God). It

includes full control over the process of reproduction. The control must be in

thought, word and deed. If the thought is not under control, the other two have

no value. There is a saying in

Hindustani: "He whose heart is pure has the all-purifying waters of the Ganga

in his house." For one whose thought is under control the other is mere child's

play.

 

The Brahmachari of my conception will be healthy and will be healthy and will

easily live long. He will not even suffer from so much as a headache. Mental and

physical work will not cause fatigue. He is ever bright, never slothful. Outward

neatness will be an exact

reflection of the inner. He will exhibit all the attributes of the steadfast one

described in the Gita. It indeed cause no worry if one person is met with

answering the description.

 

Life without brahmacharya appears to me to be insipid and animal-like. The

brute by nature knows no self-restraint. Man is man because he is capable of,

and only in so far as he exercises, self-restraint. What formerly appeared to me

to be extravagant praise of brahmacharya in our religious books seems now, with

increasing clearness every day, to be absolutely proper and founded on

experience. "

--------------------

 

Shivamastu

 

 

------------------

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[Guest guest]

Dear Ram,

 

You wrote:

 

"Animals don't

overeat, oversleep or overindulge. They have a

self-protected mechanisms to keep their True Nature."

 

And I have to disagree: In the Serengeti national park (Tanzania), the Amarula

trees produce fruits abundantly every year. When these fruits are rotting, they

fall from the trees and contain alcohol. Many animals will come to the site and

indulge until they can barely walk anymore. Drunk, they will look for a place to

rest and the drunkenness makes them very vulnerable for predators - apparently

the pleasure is worth taking the risk.

 

Another funny story is from research: Pigs were kept together in a meadow until

a picking order had been established. Then a trough with fermented apples was

introduced. The strongest pigs would indulge first and slowly get drunk. The

weak ones were noticing that, and at the decisive moment, would attack the "high

picking order" pigs and win of course. Until they were drunk enough for the

other pigs, sobering up, to take revenge. This scenario kept repeating

 

Still another story is about apes: two could watch, each from a separate cage,

how bananas were buried under a heavy stone - so heavy that they only could

remove it together. Then, the apes were freed from their cages and they started

to fight. The winner would try to lift up the stone and when he was tired

enough, the one having lost the fight but now recovered, would take revenge and

on his turn try to lift up the stone. Until he would be tired enough to be

beaten up again and lose... This scenario kept repeating also...

 

The only difference with humans is that they will lift up the stone together and

then start a fight

 

Mammals have self-protection mechanisms that can be easily overruled which is

the basis for becoming self-aware and that is why Ramana didn't treat the

animals at the ashram different from people.

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan:

 

I understand why you disagree with the statement: "Animals don't overeat,

oversleep or overindulge. They have a self-protected mechanisms to keep their

True Nature." Our observation of animals and the things of the Nature are our

own perception of the Nature. Because of their 'good nature' it seems that the

animals and other creatures don't engage in discussions and analysis of human

behavior. May be this is part of the 'Brahma Leela' than Frankji discussed in

his excellent posts. How we treat animals or other fellow human beings depend

on our attitude toward them. Ramana's attitude toward animals and his fellow

members of the Ashram just confirms that he is self-realized! As rightly

pointed out by you, the rest of us lift the stone together and argue!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Dear Ram,

 

I understand the perspective that animals, getting drunk by consumption of

fermented fruits, continuing consumption next day despite showing all effects of

severe hangover, are following their true nature, as there is nothing outside

the true nature.

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins.

Namaste. After I read the nice articles geven below. I am thinking of Sri

Krishna Rukmani Sambad; Which I think relates to the Topics of our

discussion. I would appriciate our learned members comment to understand more

clearly of what Rukmani meant by saying as follows taken from Sri Mad

Bhagbatam purana.

Thanks.

Raghabananda.

******************

Book 10, Dis 60 Sri Krishna Rukmani Sambad

 

Tom wai samastapurusarthmaye: phalatma

edwanchaya sumatayo bisrijanti kritasnam.

Tesam bivo samuchito bhavat: samaja: Pumsa:

striyascha ratayo: sukhadukhinorna. 38.

 

Sri Rukmani is saying:

In deed you are the embodiment of every (recognized) object of human

pursuit, a personification of absolute joy, seeking which the wise give up

everything.

Their contact with you is most deserved, but not so of the man and woman who

are attached one to the other and therefore subject to pleasure and pain. (38)

 

Kannem sraeta taba padasarojagandhamaghraye sanmukharitam janatapabargam.

Lakshmayalaem tobgannayaa gunalasse marthbibiktadristi:. 42.

Tam twanurupamavajam jagatamadhisamatmanamatra cha paratra cha kamapuram.

Syname tawanghriraranam sritivirvramantya yo wai

bhajantamupayattenritapabarga: 43

 

O Lord, the abode of virtues ! the fragrance of your lotus-feet grants

freedom from transmigration to the people, is the resort of Laksmi and has

been extolled by men of wisdom. What mortal woman with a clear insight into

the real purpose of life, who has (once) smelt it, would (dare) ignore it and

seek another who is ever subject to grave fears (of senility and death etc)?

(42)

 

I have sought as my befitting partner you, Who are the suzerain lord of the

Universe, (nay) my own Self and the granter of (all) desired boons both here

as well as hereafter. May your feet, which seek him who worships you and

release him from the deceptive cycle of births and deaths, prove to be an

asylum to me, who have been wandering through (repeated) births. (43)

 

Tasya: siurachuta nripa bhavatopadista: strinam grihesu

kharagoswobidalabhritya:.

Yetkarnamulamarikarsann nopayayada usmatkatha mridabiranchisavasu geeta. 44.

Tokasmasruromanakhakesapinadhmantrmamsasthiraktakrimibitakphapittabatam.

jibachhabam bhajati kantamatirbimudha ya te padabjamakarandamjighratee

stri.45.

 

O infallible One, O Destroyer of foes, let the kings (sisupala and others)

suggested by you be the choice of that woman into whose ears has not entered

a lay pertaining to you and sung in the courts of Siva and Brahma. Within

their homes those kings behave towards the ladies like a donkey, an ox, a

dog, a cat and a slave. (44).

This human body, the interior of which contains (nothing but ) flesh, bones,

blood, worms, excreta, is a living corpse. That stupid woman alone serves

such a body as a husband, who has never enjoyed the fragrance of honey

in the lotus of Your feet. (45)

 

Naiwalikamaham manye bachaste madhusudan.

Ambaya eba hi praye: Kanyaya: siyd rati: kwochit. (47)

biudhayaschiapi punschalye manoveti nawam nawam.

budhosatim na bivriyata tam bivridubhayechuta: (48)

 

When you ask me to choose another partner even now, O surely enough, there

are girls who like Amba* (the daughter of the celebrated king of Kasi),

cherish love for somebody else (than the one by whom they have been won).

(47)

The mind of a woman of easy virtue, though married, is always attracted

towards a new person. A wise man should not (therefore ) maintain such an

unchaste woman; for by doing so he falls both here and hereafter. (48)

 

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA; GOVINDA RADHE

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA; GOVINDA RADHE.

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA; GOVINDA RADHE.

 

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA RADHE. RADHE RADHE GOVINDA RADHE.

 

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA; GOVINDA RADHE

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA; GOVINDA RADHE.

RADHE RADHE GOVINDA; GOVINDA RADHE.

 

 

In a message dated 10/24/00 5:09:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

anand_natarajan writes:

 

<<

Hari.H Om,

 

I wish to make here the distinction between moral life and spiritual

life. For a spiritual life, morality is essential, indeed it is the

foundation.

However, one may lead a perfectly moral life without any spiritual outlook.

I would look at the quotations from the Upanishads relating to Sages living

with their spouses in this regard. It encourages morality, a step in the

right direction.

Spiritual life means living in the spirit. If you seek communion, seek

divine communion. Sri Ramakrishna said that after the birth of one or two

children, husband and wife should remain as brother and sister.

Speaking of the Upanishads, The Kathopanishad was told to Nachiketa by the

Lord Yama only after he had discarded all temptations and sense pleasures.

When one vibrates with the dance of the lord within the heart, will one

need any more delights ? Why not sacrifice our sense pleasures saying "I seek

union with the primal energy of pure consciousness and none else".

 

I give below the interpretation of Brahmacharya by Mahatma Gandhi.

 

" What is brahmacharya? It is the way of life which leads us to Brahma

(God). It includes full control over the process of reproduction. The control

must be in thought, word and deed. If the thought is not under control, the

other two have no value. There is a saying in

Hindustani: "He whose heart is pure has the all-purifying waters of the

Ganga in his house." For one whose thought is under control the other is mere

child's play.

 

The Brahmachari of my conception will be healthy and will be healthy and

will easily live long. He will not even suffer from so much as a headache.

Mental and physical work will not cause fatigue. He is ever bright, never

slothful. Outward neatness will be an exact

reflection of the inner. He will exhibit all the attributes of the steadfast

one described in the Gita. It indeed cause no worry if one person is met with

answering the description.

 

Life without brahmacharya appears to me to be insipid and animal-like. The

brute by nature knows no self-restraint. Man is man because he is capable of,

and only in so far as he exercises, self-restraint. What formerly appeared to

me to be extravagant praise of brahmacharya in our religious books seems now,

with increasing clearness every day, to be absolutely proper and founded on

experience. "

--------------------

 

Shivamastu

>>