Guest guest Posted June 5, 2000 Report Share Posted June 5, 2000 Namaste, Re BS interpretation of S, I think he attemped the metaphysics(ontology,epitstemology,axiology) of Brahman-nitya-shuddha-budha-mukta- the Absolute of the eternal-pure-conscious-free First Principle. Like all first princples in any discipline, Brahman is accepted on faith but grounded in the spontaneous intuitive expressions of Up sages. Brahman or Being is ontic principle -vastutantra- and Atman is the ground of epistemic jivatman -purushatantra. The essence of the latter is consciousness- pure subjectivity. That the former is Consciousness itself- vidnanaghana- is taken on faith. The identity of these two consciousness is Advait. The other tenets of Keval-Advait philosophy like appearance -Maya-,pragmatic sphere-vyavaharic sattaa-limited value of any spiritual practices based on subject-object duality (work or devotion) for chittashudhi only and noetic revelation as freedom-moksh- folllow consistently and persuasively from the first principle. In nut-shell Advait is Sat-Chit-Anand. Regards. Vasant Godbole ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2000 Report Share Posted November 1, 2000 Fascinating stuff still! The aspect that I found most worrying this time was the implication that the authority of the commentary appears a little shaky to say the least. You emphasise how important it is that we should know which statements from the upanishhads are related to a given suutra but indicate that this was not divulged by Vyaasa. You say that we have to rely on the ability of the subsequent commentators to know what Vyaasa was thinking of when he wrote the bhaashhya. This ability was reliant on word of mouth passed down through generations. Doesn’t this diminish the authority of the BSB significantly or at least make the use of shaastrya anumaana somewhat ‘hit and miss’? Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2000 Report Share Posted November 1, 2000 >"Dennis Waite" <dwaite >advaitin ><advaitin > > Comment on BSB: I-i-1-1B >Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:49:14 -0000 > >Fascinating stuff still! The aspect that I found most worrying this time >was >the implication that the authority of the commentary appears a little shaky >to say the least. You emphasise how important it is that we should know >which statements from the upanishhads are related to a given suutra but >indicate that this was not divulged by Vyaasa. You say that we have to rely >on the ability of the subsequent commentators to know what Vyaasa was >thinking of when he wrote the bhaashhya. This ability was reliant on word >of >mouth passed down through generations. Doesn’t this diminish the authority >of the BSB significantly or at least make the use of shaastrya anumaana >somewhat ‘hit and miss’? > >Dennis Dennis in principle what you say is right. Since Vyaasa did not give the mantra-s that are specifically being referred to, we have to relay on the bhaashhyakaara-s. They are governed by the following facts. The suutra-s only refer to the Upanishad declarations or shruti and bhaashyakaara-s are limited primarily to shruti statements. They have to match with the suutra statement. Second they have to convince others that the vishhaya vaakyaas are indeed applicable to the suutra-s. Take for example the first suutra. The jij~naasaa aspect matches closely with the three upanishad references that was provided by Shankara. Most of the baashyakaara-s agree with these vishhaya vaakaya-s but the meaning and interpretation they give are slightly different. As you will see there was extensive discussion and objection related to the meaning of the word atha shabdam EVerybody agrees that atha imply threafter as shankara postulated. Yet what it implies they disagree. Each aachaarya bringsout the meaning suitable to their main postulate of their theory. Shankara in his bhaashhya examines the other theories prevailing in his times and refutes them showing why his interpretaions is better. From our point, after examining the puurvapaksha and siddhaanta each one has to convince himself the logic of the analysis that appeals to his heart. Hence I have pointed in the beginning itself adviata does not relay on the Brahmasuutra for validation. The very vedantic diclarations or mahaavaakyaas affirm the advaitic nature of the reality. Brahmasuutra-s only confirm it if we understand adhyaasa aspect and follow the Shankara's analysis. I propose to take up Raamaanuja's and Madhva's interpretations or objections once I complete the shankara bhaashhya. I do strongly endorse Vidya's statement that we should first understand Shankara's interpretaion before we examine the others. Hari OMm! Sadananda _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Dear Sadanandaji, Continuing on this querry by Dennis Waite I too have been wondering as to how Vyasacharya appears to have failed in his Sutra literature by not being clear. By keeping his sutras 'Alpakshara' Vyasacharya has left them open to so many different interpretations because he has not kept them 'Asandigdham' at the same time. Again, you state that it is not essential for the Mumukshu to study and uderstand Brahmasutras for BrahmaVidya eventhough BS is one of the three components of ' Prasthanatrayam'. You cannot surely argue that the Dwaitins or the Vasishtaadwaitins have skewed up the intended meanings by Vyasacharya of his Sutras! Hari Om! Swaminarayan Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: Fascinating stuff still! The aspect that I found most worrying this time was the implication that the authority of the commentary appears a little shaky to say the least. You emphasise how important it is that we should know which statements from the upanishhads are related to a given suutra but indicate that this was not divulged by Vyaasa. You say that we have to rely on the ability of the subsequent commentators to know what Vyaasa was thinking of when he wrote the bhaashhya. This ability was reliant on word of mouth passed down through generations. Doesn’t this diminish the authority of the BSB significantly or at least make the use of shaastrya anumaana somewhat ‘hit and miss’? Dennis Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to To to advaitin list, send a blank email to >From homework help to love advice, Experts has your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 >Dear Sadanandaji, > >Continuing on this querry by Dennis Waite I too have been wondering as to >how Vyasacharya appears to have failed in his Sutra literature by not being >clear. By keeping his sutras 'Alpakshara' Vyasacharya has left them open >to so many different interpretations because he has not kept them >'Asandigdham' at the same time. Shree Swaminarayan, I think we need to look at it correctly. Here is what I understand. Keeping with the suutra format Vyaasaachaarya has provided what needed to be provided. As we go along with the suutra-s, we will learn that ambiguity is not mainly with respect to what vishhaya vaakyams on which each of the suutra-s is based but mainly the interpretation of these vishayavaakyaas. The ambiguity arises fundamentally from Vedanta where in there are mantra-s that discuss about the Advaitic State and there are mantra-s that discuss about the personified form of the paramaatma emphasizing the dualistic aspects. Shankara treats the advaitic statements primary and the dualistic statements secondary. The other aachaaryaas consider it other way that is dualistic statements as primary and the advaitic statements as secondary. In fact Maadhva argues that from the number density point, there are more dvaitic statements than advaitic statements. More the merrier philosophy. Shankara argues that I donot need shaastra to tell me that differences are real, since that knowledge is based on our direct pratyaksha. If shaastra has to be a valid pramaana, it has to tell me something that I cannot know otherwise through pratyaksha or anumaana. I donot need shaastra to tell me that I am alive or fire is hot or ice is cold. It has to tell me something beyond my normal means of knowledge. Then only it is valid pramaana. If in passing it tell me that fire is hot and ice is cold it is only of secondary information. Hence Shankara gives more importance to advaitic statements. Take for example - nirguNa - Shankara interprets that it is beyond guNa-s - since guNa-s belong to objects and Brahman is the very subject and not an object. Hence it is guNa atiita. Where are the other aachaarya-s interpret nirguNa as dhosha guNa rahita or he does not have bad guNa-s. He is the locus of ananta kalyaaNa guNa-s, infinite auspicious guNa-s since some of the dviatic statements focus on that. Look at it this way. Each of the models is self-consistent model and take from Vedanta that support their model and use Brahmasuutra and interpret it to support their models. As I outlined in the fist notes there are many bhaashyaa-s, each claiming their interpretation is right. I suggest at this stage to understand thoroughly how Shankara interprets the suutra-s. One can discuss if there are any problems in the analysis or logic that Shankara points out. The discussion whether Shankara is right or others are right is, at this stage where we are in - is premature. Once Shankara bhaashya is completed from Adviata point, we can discuss about the interpretation of other aachaarya-s. At this stage of the game, I donot want to divert to other interpretations. Shankara does provides some of the puurvapaksha-s prevailing at that time - which may not include directly VishishhTadivaita and Dvaita, but some elements of these will be brought out. > >Again, you state that it is not essential for the Mumukshu to study and >uderstand Brahmasutras for BrahmaVidya eventhough BS is one of the three >components of ' Prasthanatrayam'. You cannot surely argue that the Dwaitins >or the Vasishtaadwaitins have skewed up the intended meanings by >Vyasacharya of his Sutras! I have not said that (Yet!). In fact there are many who argue that other bhaashyakaara-s are more correct than Shankara just based on Brahmasuutra-s. My only statement was, Brahmasuutra-s are based on Vedanta. Vedanta is more fundamental and one has to use Brahmasuutra to understand Vedanta. It should not be used for validation of Vedanta. Advaita is more fundamentally based. The reason it is, all others are based on presupposition of the existence of personified form that you can not see or deduce. But advaita is based on existence of oneself - which is beyond any presuppositions and fundamental for all presuppositions. Even shaastra-s are valid because I exist. My existence is beyond any pramaaNa (aprameyam). Hence it is not an -ism, as Shree T.P Mahadevan put it - advaita or nondualism, the non applies not only to duality but to ism as well. Having convinced about the Adviata, if one looks at the Brahmasuutras, the analysis becomes more convincing. That is the reason why Shankara brings out first adhyaasa aspect before he discusses the suutras since one should understand the fundamental problem first and then study the scripture in terms of how the solution can be brought out using Vedanta. My final suggestion is let us wait and study Shankara Bhaashhya before we question about the other aachaarya-s interpretations. If you find any illogicality in the Shankara Bhaashhya let us bring those out and discuss. Hari Om! Sadananda > >Hari Om! > >Swaminarayan _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Namaste, It may be worth mentioning here a verse from Shankara Digvijayam by Swami Vidyaranya [Ch. 7: vyaasa-darshan-aadi-charita-varNanam.h . v.48] where Vyasa, in the form of an old brahmin, after engaging Shankara in a debate, gives his stamp of approval to his commentary. "Before this many a number of learned men have written commentaries on the brahmasutras with explanations; in future also it will be done by so many learned men. Yet, oh Sarvajna [all-knowing one]! all of them are not capable of comprehendingthe thoughts I had in mind and their import while composing the sutras." Regards, s. advaitin , "Kuntimaddi Sadananda" <k_sadananda@h...> wrote: > >Dear Sadanandaji, > > > >Continuing on this querry by Dennis Waite I too have been wondering as to > >how Vyasacharya appears to have failed in his Sutra literature by not being > >clear. > > My final suggestion is let us wait and study Shankara Bhaashhya before we > question about the other aachaarya-s interpretations. > > If you find any illogicality in the Shankara Bhaashhya let us bring those > out and discuss. > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > > > > > >Hari Om! > > > >Swaminarayan > > ____________________ ___ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 advaitin , Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > Dear Sadanandaji, > > Continuing on this querry by Dennis Waite I too have been wondering as to how Vyasacharya appears to have failed in his Sutra literature by not being clear. By keeping his sutras 'Alpakshara' Vyasacharya has left them open to so many different interpretations because he has not kept them 'Asandigdham' at the same time. > > Again, you state that it is not essential for the Mumukshu to study and uderstand Brahmasutras for BrahmaVidya eventhough BS is one of the three components of ' Prasthanatrayam'. You cannot surely argue that the Dwaitins or the Vasishtaadwaitins have skewed up the intended meanings by Vyasacharya of his Sutras! > suutra-s are brief and written in a coded form for making them easy to memorize and recollect. They serve as a mnemonic to the lot of interconnected ideas. In the past, it was taught orally from guru to shishhya and the guru's role to explain and remove the ambiguity. When we read from printed/written texts they are prone confusions. I was told that shR^i~Ngagiri sha~NkaraachArya once emphasized that brahma-sUtra-s must be learnt only from a guru and not one one's own from a printed text. It is like shruti in a way. To address the second point, if someone chooses to mis-interpret they will find a way some how, consider the dvaitin's "atmaa atattvamasi". Besides that vyAsa must have had different levels of sadhAka-s in mind. Not all are at same level to appreciate advaita-vedAnta. Finally, as an aside, most of us will not qualify the "adhikAri laxaNam" which was mentioned in the beginning of the BSB series. My 2c. Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Ravi Mayavaram <miinalochanii wrote: suutra-s are brief and written in a coded form for making them easy to memorize and recollect. They serve as a mnemonic to the lot of interconnected ideas. In the past, it was taught orally from guru to shishhya and the guru's role to explain and remove the ambiguity. When we read from printed/written texts they are prone confusions. I was told that shR^i~Ngagiri sha~NkaraachArya once emphasized that brahma-sUtra-s must be learnt only from a guru and not one one's own from a printed text. It is like shruti in a way. ---------------- The point is well taken. In today's modern facilities where the ' I.T.' and printed medium are so advanced, we should be grateful that we are in a position to atleast get an idea from them about this ' Elusive Subject of Brahma Vidya '. We can only keep our fingers crossed with a hope of meeting an enlightened guru to take us forward. --\ --\ ----------- To address the second point, if someone chooses to mis-interpret they will find a way some how, consider the dvaitin's "atmaa atattvamasi". Besides that vyAsa must have had different levels of sadhAka-s in mind. Not all are at same level to appreciate advaita-vedAnta. ---------------- Dvaitin's "Atat tvam Asi" :: Is this reading grammatically wrong ? No. This is their interpretation.You can not call it Mis- interpretation.If an Advaitin comes across such an arguement , as an Advaitins he is free to establish his point of view in the matter. --\ --\ ----------- Finally, as an aside, most of us will not qualify the "adhikAri laxaNam" which was mentioned in the beginning of the BSB series. -------------- Consider this Sruti: ShravaNaayaapi bahubhiryo na labhyahaa (There are many people who do not even have a chance to hear about this) ShruNvantopi bahuvo yum na vidhyuhu ( Even after hearing many people among them do not understand it ) Ascharyo vaktaa kushalosya labdhaa ( It is a wonder indeed for a student to have found a competent teacher ) Ashcharyo gyaata kushalaanushishyahaa. ( It is a greater wonder if such a student becomes a Brahma vid ) ---------------- Do you not think that most of us are atleast not in the catagory mentioned in the first line above? Hari Om ! Warm regards, Swaminarayan --\ --\ ----------- My 2c. Ravi >From homework help to love advice, Experts has your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2000 Report Share Posted November 3, 2000 >Finally, as an aside, most of us will not qualify the "adhikAri >laxaNam" which was mentioned in the beginning of the BSB series. > >My 2c. > >Ravi Ravi - It is not an aside as you will see that this part will also be discussed as we bringout the purrvapaksha-s and siddhaanta-s. Hari Om! Sadananda K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2000 Report Share Posted November 3, 2000 Hari Om: The Guru-shishhya Paramabara (One-on-0ne teacher to student learning tradition) needs reinterpretation in the modern context. The statement, "Sarvam Brahma Mayam" necessarily implies all the changes during the modern times including Advaitin and Advaita lists are from and by the one and the same Brahman! The purpose of these lists is to expose the students to Advaita Philosophy and philosophical texts from known to the unknown. The perception of 'confusion' is the greatest indicator of hunger for knowledge and such confusion motivates the serious student to clear the wrong notions. Shankaracharya's statement, "Brahma-sUtras must be learnt only from a guru" emphasizes that all scriptures including Gita and the Upanishads can't be learnt by using a 'Sanskrit-English Dictionary.' The Satsang in this list is not necessarily the perfect arrangement for learning but it is certainly better than reading on our own! We are quite fortunate the learned members of the list have agreed to share their knowledge of the scriptures through scholarly postings. The goal of every student is to clear his/her doubts but all doubts will not necessarily be cleared by email exchanges. The goal of this list is to help the student to cultivate the habit of learning by enquiry through friendly exchanges. This list is a collective enterprise where every member is obligated to take a role and participate. In VivekachUdAmani, Shankara beautifully points out "Brahmavidya can only be transfered from the self-realized Guru (master of Brahmavidya) to qualified student." First, only qualified student will be able to find the self-realized Guru and most important, the self-realized Guru will accept only qualified students! regards, Ram Chandran advaitin , Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > Ravi Mayavaram <miinalochanii> wrote: > > suutra-s are brief and written in a coded form for making them easy to > memorize and recollect. They serve as a mnemonic to the lot of > interconnected ideas. In the past, it was taught orally from guru to > shishhya and the guru's role to explain and remove the ambiguity. When > we read from printed/written texts they are prone confusions. I was > told that shR^i~Ngagiri sha~NkaraachArya once emphasized that > brahma-sUtra-s must be learnt only from a guru and not one one's own > from a printed text. It is like shruti in a way. > > ---------------- > > The point is well taken. In today's modern facilities where the ' I.T.' and printed medium are so advanced, we should be grateful that we are in a position to atleast get an idea from them about this ' Elusive Subject of Brahma Vidya '. We can only keep our fingers crossed with a hope of meeting an enlightened guru to take us forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2000 Report Share Posted November 3, 2000 Namaste, In varaaha upanishhat, 4th Ch., there is a dialogue between Nidagha and Bhagavan Ribhu, explaining the seven stages of the development of wisdom [j~naanabhuumikaa]. The very first one is 'shubhechchhaa' [good desire]. "The desire that arises in one through sheer dispassion, after resolving: 'Shall I be ignorant? I will study the scriptures and be with the wise ', is termed shubhechchhaa." The taittiriiya upanishhat [i:xi:1] advises : "Let there be no neglect of study and teaching.' The Gita admonishes:" your competence is in performing your duties." The duties of one pursuing Brahman are: tranquillity, self- restraint, austerity, purity, forgivenes, straightforwardness, knowledge temporal and spiritual, and faith in the vedic scriptures." The Gita also advises: "even a little practice of this path of virtue will protect one from great fear [of bondage]." "Know THAT through surrender, inquiry, and service of the Wise; they will instruct you." Thus making an offering of our humility to the Supreme is the only sure path to become competent [adhikaarii]. Regards, s. -- In advaitin , "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote: > Hari Om: > > The Guru-shishhya Paramabara (One-on-0ne teacher to student learning > tradition) needs reinterpretation in the modern context. The > statement, "Sarvam Brahma Mayam" necessarily implies all the changes > during the modern times including Advaitin and Advaita lists are from > and by the one and the same Brahman! The purpose of these lists is > to expose the students to Advaita Philosophy and philosophical texts > from known to the unknown. > > ---------------- > > > > The point is well taken. In today's modern facilities where the ' > I.T.' and printed medium are so advanced, we should be grateful that > we are in a position to atleast get an idea from them about this ' > Elusive Subject of Brahma Vidya '. We can only keep our fingers > crossed with a hope of meeting an enlightened guru to take us > forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2000 Report Share Posted November 3, 2000 >Namaste, > > In varaaha upanishhat, 4th Ch., there is a dialogue between >Nidagha and Bhagavan Ribhu, explaining the seven stages of the >development of wisdom [j~naanabhuumikaa]. Interesting information Sunder. Never heard of this upanishhat. There is also seven steps of evolution discussed in YogavasishhTa. I wonder if there is any relation between these two. Hari Om! Sadananda K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2000 Report Share Posted November 3, 2000 Namaste, This upanishhat is # 98 of the 108 listed in muktika upan. It is part of the Krishna Yajurveda, and classified under Yoga upan. [it has been published (1967) by the Sri Sringeri Jagadguru Sanatana Dharma Vidya Samiti, Madras, and is the 2nd series of Minor Upanishads. There is an English translation with it, by K. Narayanasvami Aiyar.] The Yoga Vasishtha does follow the same scheme, but has 6 steps, and names only the first three, only describing the next 3. The laghu yoga vasishhTha has this definition of Arya in that same section: kartavyam aacharan kaamam akartavyam anaacharan.h . tishhThati praakR^itaachaaro yaH sa aarya iti smR^itaH .. yathaachaara.n yathaashaastra.n yathaachitta.n yathaasthitam.h . vyavahaaram upaadatte yaH sa aarya iti smR^itaH .. He is regarded as an Arya [venerable or worthy one] who, resorting to objects of desire which ought to be accomplished and not undertaking what ought not to be done, remains with natural conduct. He is called an Arya who undertakes work, as customary, according to scriptures, to the best of one's knowledge and according to circumstances. [Tr. by Jnanananda Bharati.] Regards, s. advaitin , "K. Sadananda" <sada@a...> wrote: > >Namaste, > > > > In varaaha upanishhat, 4th Ch., there is a dialogue between > >Nidagha and Bhagavan Ribhu, explaining the seven stages of the > >development of wisdom [j~naanabhuumikaa]. > > Interesting information Sunder. Never heard of this upanishhat. There is > also seven steps of evolution discussed in YogavasishhTa. I wonder if > there is any relation between these two. > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > K. Sadananda > Code 6323 > Naval Research Laboratory > Washington D.C. 20375 > Voice (202)767-2117 > Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2000 Report Share Posted November 3, 2000 Namaste, CORRECTION: Yoga Vasishtha does describe 7 stages. The terminology and descriptions between it and varaaha upan. also are not always identical. varaaha upan.: j~naanabhuumikaa 1 shubhechchhaa { 2 vichaaraNaa } mumukshu 3 tanumaanasii { 4 sattvaapatti [brahma-vit] 5 asa.nsakti [brahmavid-vara] -----sushhuptipada 6 padarthabhaavanaa [brahmavid-variiya] 7 turiiya [brahmavid-varishhTha]----guuDhasupti yoga vasishhTha: yogabhuumikaa 1 shubhechchhaa 2 vichaaraNaa 3 asa.nsakti 4 - [dreamlike] 5 - [sleeplike] 6 jiivanmukti 7 videhamukti advaitin , "sunder hattangadi" <sunderh@h...> wrote: > Namaste, > > This upanishhat is # 98 of the 108 listed in muktika upan. > It is part of the Krishna Yajurveda, and classified under Yoga upan. > > [it has been published (1967) by the Sri Sringeri Jagadguru Sanatana > Dharma Vidya Samiti, Madras, and is the 2nd series of Minor > Upanishads. There is an English translation with it, by K. > Narayanasvami Aiyar.] > > The Yoga Vasishtha does follow the same scheme, but has 6 steps, > and names only the first three, only describing the next 3. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2000 Report Share Posted November 4, 2000 Namaste, What you have written below as "varaaha upan.:". I find it to be a quotation from the Yoga Vashista. Is it also a part of Varaha Upanishad? Given below is the quotation, " Jnanbhumih Subhecchakya prathama samudhahrta Vicharana dvitiya tu tritiya tanumaanasa sattvaapattis' caturthi syat tato samsakttinaamikaa padaarthabhaavani sashti saptami turyagaa smrta || " " Pure intention is the first, enquiry is the second, the third is when the mind becomes subtle, establishment in the truth is the fourth, total freedom from objectivity is the fifth, the sixth is cessation of objectivity, and the seventh is beyond all these." Utpatti Prakaranam of Yoga Vashistha Anand ---- you wrote: > Namaste, > > CORRECTION: Yoga Vasishtha does describe 7 stages. The > terminology and descriptions between it and varaaha upan. also are > not always identical. > > varaaha upan.: j~naanabhuumikaa > > 1 shubhechchhaa { > 2 vichaaraNaa } mumukshu > 3 tanumaanasii { > > 4 sattvaapatti [brahma-vit] > 5 asa.nsakti [brahmavid-vara] -----sushhuptipada > 6 padarthabhaavanaa [brahmavid-variiya] > 7 turiiya [brahmavid-varishhTha]----guuDhasupti > > > yoga vasishhTha: yogabhuumikaa > > 1 shubhechchhaa > 2 vichaaraNaa > 3 asa.nsakti > 4 - [dreamlike] > 5 - [sleeplike] > 6 jiivanmukti > 7 videhamukti > > > > > > ------------------ Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2000 Report Share Posted November 5, 2000 Namaste, Here is the laghu vasishhTha version:[compiled by Jnanananda Bharati; publ. Samata Books, 1982, p. 317] shaastrasajjanasaMparkaiH praj~naamaadau vivardhayet.h .. prathamaa bhuumikaishhoktaa yogasya navayoginaH . vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaasyaat tR^itiiyaa.asa~Ngabhaavanaa .. vilaapanii chaturthii syaat vaasanaavilayaatmikaa . shuddhasa.nvinmayaanandaruupaa bhavati pa~nchamii .. ardhasuptaprabuddhaabho jiivanmukto.atra tishhThati . svasa.nvedanaruupaacha shhashhThii bhavati bhuumikaa .. aanandiakaghanaakaraa sushhuptasadR&ishasthitiH . turyaavasthopashaantaa.atha muktireveha kevalam.h .. samataa svachchhataa saumyaa saptamii bhuumikaa bhavet . turyaatiitaa tu yaa.avasthaa paraa nirvaaNaruupiNii .. saptamii cha pariprauDhaa vishhayaH syaat na jiivataam.h .. ------------------------------- varaaha upan. [ref in prev. message]is as follows: j~naanabhuumiH shubhechchhaa syaatprathamaa samudiiritaa . vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaa tu tR^itiiyaa tanumaanasii .. 1.. sattvaapattishchaturthii syaattato.asa.nsaktinaamikaa . padaarthabhaavanaa shhashhThii saptamii turyagaa smR^itaa .. 2.. Would appreciate more details about the publication reference from which you quote. Regards, s. advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > Namaste, > > What you have written below as "varaaha upan.:". > I find it to be a quotation from the Yoga Vashista. Is it also a part of Varaha Upanishad? > Given below is the quotation, > " Jnanbhumih Subhecchakya prathama samudhahrta > Vicharana dvitiya tu tritiya tanumaanasa > sattvaapattis' caturthi syat tato samsakttinaamikaa > padaarthabhaavani sashti saptami turyagaa smrta || " > > " Pure intention is the first, enquiry is the second, the third is when the mind becomes subtle, establishment in the truth is the fourth, total freedom from objectivity is the fifth, the sixth is cessation of objectivity, and the seventh is beyond all these." > > Utpatti Prakaranam of Yoga Vashistha > > Anand > > ---- you wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > CORRECTION: Yoga Vasishtha does describe 7 stages. The > > terminology and descriptions between it and varaaha upan. also are > > not always identical. > > > > varaaha upan.: j~naanabhuumikaa > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa { > > 2 vichaaraNaa } mumukshu > > 3 tanumaanasii { > > > > 4 sattvaapatti [brahma-vit] > > 5 asa.nsakti [brahmavid-vara] -----sushhuptipada > > 6 padarthabhaavanaa [brahmavid-variiya] > > 7 turiiya [brahmavid-varishhTha]----guuDhasupti > > > > > > yoga vasishhTha: yogabhuumikaa > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa > > 2 vichaaraNaa > > 3 asa.nsakti > > 4 - [dreamlike] > > 5 - [sleeplike] > > 6 jiivanmukti > > 7 videhamukti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2000 Report Share Posted November 6, 2000 The extract I quoted below was from the book, "The Supreme Yoga, A Translation of the Yoga Vashishta" -Swami Venkateshananda, Divine Life Society. It is indeed interesting, as your selection from the Varaha Upanishad is exactly the same verse found in this Yoga Vashishta book. Perhaps it will be there in the version of the Yoga Vashista you are having also under Utpatti Prakaranam. Regards, Anand ---- you wrote: > Namaste, > > Here is the laghu vasishhTha version:[compiled by Jnanananda > Bharati; publ. Samata Books, 1982, p. 317] > > shaastrasajjanasaMparkaiH praj~naamaadau vivardhayet.h .. > > prathamaa bhuumikaishhoktaa yogasya navayoginaH . > vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaasyaat tR^itiiyaa.asa~Ngabhaavanaa .. > > vilaapanii chaturthii syaat vaasanaavilayaatmikaa . > shuddhasa.nvinmayaanandaruupaa bhavati pa~nchamii .. > > ardhasuptaprabuddhaabho jiivanmukto.atra tishhThati . > svasa.nvedanaruupaacha shhashhThii bhavati bhuumikaa .. > > aanandiakaghanaakaraa sushhuptasadR&ishasthitiH . > turyaavasthopashaantaa.atha muktireveha kevalam.h .. > > samataa svachchhataa saumyaa saptamii bhuumikaa bhavet . > turyaatiitaa tu yaa.avasthaa paraa nirvaaNaruupiNii .. > > saptamii cha pariprauDhaa vishhayaH syaat na jiivataam.h .. > > ------------------------------- > > varaaha upan. [ref in prev. message]is as follows: > > j~naanabhuumiH shubhechchhaa syaatprathamaa samudiiritaa . > vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaa tu tR^itiiyaa tanumaanasii .. 1.. > > sattvaapattishchaturthii syaattato.asa.nsaktinaamikaa . > padaarthabhaavanaa shhashhThii saptamii turyagaa smR^itaa .. 2.. > > > Would appreciate more details about the publication reference from > which you quote. > > Regards, > > s. > > > > > > advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > What you have written below as "varaaha upan.:". > > I find it to be a quotation from the Yoga Vashista. Is it also a > part of Varaha Upanishad? > > Given below is the quotation, > > " Jnanbhumih Subhecchakya prathama samudhahrta > > Vicharana dvitiya tu tritiya tanumaanasa > > sattvaapattis' caturthi syat tato samsakttinaamikaa > > padaarthabhaavani sashti saptami turyagaa smrta || " > > > > " Pure intention is the first, enquiry is the second, the third is > when the mind becomes subtle, establishment in the truth is the > fourth, total freedom from objectivity is the fifth, the sixth is > cessation of objectivity, and the seventh is beyond all these." > > > > Utpatti Prakaranam of Yoga Vashistha > > > > Anand > > > > ---- you wrote: > > > Namaste, > > > > > > CORRECTION: Yoga Vasishtha does describe 7 stages. The > > > terminology and descriptions between it and varaaha upan. also > are > > > not always identical. > > > > > > varaaha upan.: j~naanabhuumikaa > > > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa { > > > 2 vichaaraNaa } mumukshu > > > 3 tanumaanasii { > > > > > > 4 sattvaapatti [brahma-vit] > > > 5 asa.nsakti [brahmavid-vara] -----sushhuptipada > > > 6 padarthabhaavanaa [brahmavid-variiya] > > > 7 turiiya [brahmavid-varishhTha]----guuDhasupti > > > > > > > > > yoga vasishhTha: yogabhuumikaa > > > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa > > > 2 vichaaraNaa > > > 3 asa.nsakti > > > 4 - [dreamlike] > > > 5 - [sleeplike] > > > 6 jiivanmukti > > > 7 videhamukti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com > > > > Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-nomail > > To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-normal > > To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to <advaitin-digest > > To to advaitin list, send a blank email to <advaitin-> > > > ------------------ Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2000 Report Share Posted November 6, 2000 Namaste, Thank you, Anandji. It would appear there may be more than one variation of the text! Anyway, the similarities and differences is a matter of debate at a much higher level than I am qualified to discuss. Regards, sunder advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > The extract I quoted below was from the book, > "The Supreme Yoga, A Translation of the Yoga Vashishta" > -Swami Venkateshananda, Divine Life Society. > It is indeed interesting, as your selection from the Varaha Upanishad is exactly the same verse found in this Yoga Vashishta book. Perhaps it will be there in the version of the Yoga Vashista you are having also under > Utpatti Prakaranam. > > Regards, > Anand > > > ---- you wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > Here is the laghu vasishhTha version:[compiled by Jnanananda > > Bharati; publ. Samata Books, 1982, p. 317] > > > > shaastrasajjanasaMparkaiH praj~naamaadau vivardhayet.h .. > > > > prathamaa bhuumikaishhoktaa yogasya navayoginaH . > > vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaasyaat tR^itiiyaa.asa~Ngabhaavanaa .. > > > > vilaapanii chaturthii syaat vaasanaavilayaatmikaa . > > shuddhasa.nvinmayaanandaruupaa bhavati pa~nchamii .. > > > > ardhasuptaprabuddhaabho jiivanmukto.atra tishhThati . > > svasa.nvedanaruupaacha shhashhThii bhavati bhuumikaa .. > > > > aanandiakaghanaakaraa sushhuptasadR&ishasthitiH . > > turyaavasthopashaantaa.atha muktireveha kevalam.h .. > > > > samataa svachchhataa saumyaa saptamii bhuumikaa bhavet . > > turyaatiitaa tu yaa.avasthaa paraa nirvaaNaruupiNii .. > > > > saptamii cha pariprauDhaa vishhayaH syaat na jiivataam.h .. > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > varaaha upan. [ref in prev. message]is as follows: > > > > j~naanabhuumiH shubhechchhaa syaatprathamaa samudiiritaa . > > vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaa tu tR^itiiyaa tanumaanasii .. 1.. > > > > sattvaapattishchaturthii syaattato.asa.nsaktinaamikaa . > > padaarthabhaavanaa shhashhThii saptamii turyagaa smR^itaa .. 2.. > > > > > > Would appreciate more details about the publication reference from > > which you quote. > > > > Regards, > > > > s. > > > > > > > > > > > > advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > What you have written below as "varaaha upan.:". > > > I find it to be a quotation from the Yoga Vashista. Is it also a > > part of Varaha Upanishad? > > > Given below is the quotation, > > > " Jnanbhumih Subhecchakya prathama samudhahrta > > > Vicharana dvitiya tu tritiya tanumaanasa > > > sattvaapattis' caturthi syat tato samsakttinaamikaa > > > padaarthabhaavani sashti saptami turyagaa smrta || " > > > > > > " Pure intention is the first, enquiry is the second, the third is > > when the mind becomes subtle, establishment in the truth is the > > fourth, total freedom from objectivity is the fifth, the sixth is > > cessation of objectivity, and the seventh is beyond all these." > > > > > > Utpatti Prakaranam of Yoga Vashistha > > > > > > Anand > > > > > > ---- you wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > CORRECTION: Yoga Vasishtha does describe 7 stages. The > > > > terminology and descriptions between it and varaaha upan. also > > are > > > > not always identical. > > > > > > > > varaaha upan.: j~naanabhuumikaa > > > > > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa { > > > > 2 vichaaraNaa } mumukshu > > > > 3 tanumaanasii { > > > > > > > > 4 sattvaapatti [brahma-vit] > > > > 5 asa.nsakti [brahmavid-vara] -----sushhuptipada > > > > 6 padarthabhaavanaa [brahmavid-variiya] > > > > 7 turiiya [brahmavid-varishhTha]----guuDhasupti > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga vasishhTha: yogabhuumikaa > > > > > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa > > > > 2 vichaaraNaa > > > > 3 asa.nsakti > > > > 4 - [dreamlike] > > > > 5 - [sleeplike] > > > > 6 jiivanmukti > > > > 7 videhamukti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com > > > > > > > > Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-nomail > > > To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-normal > > > To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to <advaitin-digest > > > To to advaitin list, send a blank email to <advaitin- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2000 Report Share Posted November 6, 2000 Namaste, One of the reasons for the variant readings is due to the selection of verses: The original text is said to contain 32,000 shlokas [64,000 lines]. ["The complete edition is possibly available in private collections."] The printed editions, however, have only 28.000 shlokas. The abridged edition, laghu yoga vasishhTha, has 6,000 shlokas. Vasishtha Sangraha, Sw. Jnanananda Bharati's compilation {The Essence of Yoga Vasistha), has 1698 shlokas. Sw. Vishnudevananda's selection has 730 shlokas. Regards, s. advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > The extract I quoted below was from the book, > "The Supreme Yoga, A Translation of the Yoga Vashishta" > -Swami Venkateshananda, Divine Life Society. > It is indeed interesting, as your selection from the Varaha Upanishad is exactly the same verse found in this Yoga Vashishta book. Perhaps it will be there in the version of the Yoga Vashista you are having also under > Utpatti Prakaranam. > > Regards, > Anand > > > ---- you wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > Here is the laghu vasishhTha version:[compiled by Jnanananda > > Bharati; publ. Samata Books, 1982, p. 317] > > > > shaastrasajjanasaMparkaiH praj~naamaadau vivardhayet.h .. > > > > prathamaa bhuumikaishhoktaa yogasya navayoginaH . > > vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaasyaat tR^itiiyaa.asa~Ngabhaavanaa .. > > > > vilaapanii chaturthii syaat vaasanaavilayaatmikaa . > > shuddhasa.nvinmayaanandaruupaa bhavati pa~nchamii .. > > > > ardhasuptaprabuddhaabho jiivanmukto.atra tishhThati . > > svasa.nvedanaruupaacha shhashhThii bhavati bhuumikaa .. > > > > aanandiakaghanaakaraa sushhuptasadR&ishasthitiH . > > turyaavasthopashaantaa.atha muktireveha kevalam.h .. > > > > samataa svachchhataa saumyaa saptamii bhuumikaa bhavet . > > turyaatiitaa tu yaa.avasthaa paraa nirvaaNaruupiNii .. > > > > saptamii cha pariprauDhaa vishhayaH syaat na jiivataam.h .. > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > varaaha upan. [ref in prev. message]is as follows: > > > > j~naanabhuumiH shubhechchhaa syaatprathamaa samudiiritaa . > > vichaaraNaa dvitiiyaa tu tR^itiiyaa tanumaanasii .. 1.. > > > > sattvaapattishchaturthii syaattato.asa.nsaktinaamikaa . > > padaarthabhaavanaa shhashhThii saptamii turyagaa smR^itaa .. 2.. > > > > > > Would appreciate more details about the publication reference from > > which you quote. > > > > Regards, > > > > s. > > > > > > > > > > > > advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > What you have written below as "varaaha upan.:". > > > I find it to be a quotation from the Yoga Vashista. Is it also a > > part of Varaha Upanishad? > > > Given below is the quotation, > > > " Jnanbhumih Subhecchakya prathama samudhahrta > > > Vicharana dvitiya tu tritiya tanumaanasa > > > sattvaapattis' caturthi syat tato samsakttinaamikaa > > > padaarthabhaavani sashti saptami turyagaa smrta || " > > > > > > " Pure intention is the first, enquiry is the second, the third is > > when the mind becomes subtle, establishment in the truth is the > > fourth, total freedom from objectivity is the fifth, the sixth is > > cessation of objectivity, and the seventh is beyond all these." > > > > > > Utpatti Prakaranam of Yoga Vashistha > > > > > > Anand > > > > > > ---- you wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > CORRECTION: Yoga Vasishtha does describe 7 stages. The > > > > terminology and descriptions between it and varaaha upan. also > > are > > > > not always identical. > > > > > > > > varaaha upan.: j~naanabhuumikaa > > > > > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa { > > > > 2 vichaaraNaa } mumukshu > > > > 3 tanumaanasii { > > > > > > > > 4 sattvaapatti [brahma-vit] > > > > 5 asa.nsakti [brahmavid-vara] -----sushhuptipada > > > > 6 padarthabhaavanaa [brahmavid-variiya] > > > > 7 turiiya [brahmavid-varishhTha]----guuDhasupti > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga vasishhTha: yogabhuumikaa > > > > > > > > 1 shubhechchhaa > > > > 2 vichaaraNaa > > > > 3 asa.nsakti > > > > 4 - [dreamlike] > > > > 5 - [sleeplike] > > > > 6 jiivanmukti > > > > 7 videhamukti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com > > > > > > > > Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-nomail > > > To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-normal > > > To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to <advaitin-digest > > > To to advaitin list, send a blank email to <advaitin- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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