Guest guest Posted November 6, 2000 Report Share Posted November 6, 2000 hariH OM! the following is a response to the concerns of a cyber-friend who seems to be showing signs of egoic dissolution. perhaps some of our List members may benefit from it.. namaste. ______ (note: the individual appears to be confronting a fierce battle being waged by a threatened ego, fighting for its contol over his awareness (in terms of self-perception.) _____________ dear friend: **the ego itself has no substance**. it is merely a conduit for the expression of the Self. the thing to realize is that it can take on any form [ranging from behaviour that is predominantly satvic to that which is tamasic]. in the case of someone having metaphysical-existential insight, the behavior itself is no longer the paramount issue. the issue becomes whether or not one is yet attached to such behavior; whether or not one is still the victim, believeing that the behavior is fatefully defining oneself. the fact is, however, it does not and *cannot*; because the behavior is really a pre-scripted role [programmed by isvara]. so that the primary mistake [as the byproduct of social conditioning having become a subconscious habit] is that one is hence defined and confined by and within the ego. whereas in fact it's really devoid of substance(!)...being really only a conduit for divine expression. this is what has to be continuously focused on and eventually made into experiential awareness. as with anything, it begins with the seed of knowledge in the mind, where through life's evolutionary processes that seed begins to sprout and grow into living experience in the Heart (viz. natural awareness). how long this might take is dependent on unknown factors. the best strategy in the midst of it, is to secure patience and insight into what's happening [as herein described for example]. it's quite inevitable that in the endgame of the career of the soul's drama unfolding--in its arduous trek toward what is afterall [incidentally] recognized to be the *NON-EVENT* of Self-realization, the ego puts up its fiercest battle yet!...engaging in tactics that are more lethal and challenging than anything one could have ever imagined or predicted! (bearing this in mind will help take the traumatic edge off the intensity of this battle; this inevitable event referred to as 'the dark night of the soul.') the most powerful weapon we have in the face of this internal combat (this incomprehensible civil war of the ego!) is to remain silent. the steeper the pitch and frequency of thoughts coming, the more silent and less reactive we can become in the face of them, the sooner they'll losen their vicious stronghold and impact on our awareness and begin to finally dissipate...the sooner we'll avail ourselves to that momentous ultra-shift Threshold of our final Release. above all, always keep in mind that the more intense the battle becomes, the closer we're in fact approaching the threshold. therefore take heart and stay the course through the storm. as with the death of the mortal coil, everyone will also in time face this death of the ego-Mind.. this dreaded passage through the *accumulated* hells of our gravest nightmares. bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily have to happen as described here--viz. arranged in a singular and final crescendo, recapitulating, at once, the historic panorama of all the dark battles of fear, insecurity and morbidity the ego has engineered. actually, and more commonly (to my understanding), it will tend to follow a more gradual, cyclical process. there are in fact countless formats for this dark night. as the saying goes, "there's always a little bit of heaven in a disaster area," also fits into the scheme of things. note also there are countless ways these formats can play out, in terms of numerous 'visitations' having varying durations, that may or may not in fact lead up to a final blowout episode. i do believe it's much more common to go through waves of these episodes, interspersed with periods of varying degrees of peace and tragic-comedic relief. in fact, the latter format would seem the most common of all. in any event, and irrespective of how it plays out, it's also important to know that you're not alone in facing this foresaken dark night of the soul...just as none of us is alone in passing through the physical death barrier. the fact is, though, neither kind of death is at all what it appears! ...which recognition comes inevitably in the aftermath of each, along with the most amazing recognition of all: that there was nothing but *insubstantial* smoke and mirrors to all the suffering all along anyway!! OM shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 advaitin , "f. maiello" <egodust@d...> wrote: > hariH OM! > > the following is a response to the concerns of a cyber-friend > who seems to be showing signs of egoic dissolution. > > perhaps some of our List members may benefit from it.. > > namaste. I'd just like to add some stuff too Frank. In my opinion what is reassuring is that the same one who looks through your eyes when a child & as an adult ~ Is the same one who remains after shadow wars etc. This is the ever same Self which always was/Is here & cannot go. What dissolves is a lot of wounded beliefs you turn against yourself due to the abuse of societal & often religious conditioning. Who you really are is already always here, & does not go. I think that is very reassuring. Peace, Col > > ______ > > (note: the individual appears to be confronting a fierce > battle being waged by a threatened ego, fighting for its > contol over his awareness (in terms of self-perception.) > > _____________ > > dear friend: > > **the ego itself has no substance**. it is merely a conduit for > the expression of the Self. the thing to realize is that it can > take on any form [ranging from behaviour that is predominantly > satvic to that which is tamasic]. in the case of someone having > metaphysical-existential insight, the behavior itself is no longer > the paramount issue. the issue becomes whether or not one is yet > attached to such behavior; whether or not one is still the victim, > believeing that the behavior is fatefully defining oneself. the > fact is, however, it does not and *cannot*; because the behavior > is really a pre-scripted role [programmed by isvara]. > > so that the primary mistake [as the byproduct of social conditioning > having become a subconscious habit] is that one is hence defined and > confined by and within the ego. whereas in fact it's really devoid > of substance(!)...being really only a conduit for divine expression. > this is what has to be continuously focused on and eventually made > into experiential awareness. as with anything, it begins with the > seed of knowledge in the mind, where through life's evolutionary > processes that seed begins to sprout and grow into living experience > in the Heart (viz. natural awareness). how long this might take is > dependent on unknown factors. the best strategy in the midst of it, > is to secure patience and insight into what's happening [as herein > described for example]. > > it's quite inevitable that in the endgame of the career of the > soul's drama unfolding--in its arduous trek toward what is afterall > [incidentally] recognized to be the *NON-EVENT* of Self-realization, > the ego puts up its fiercest battle yet!...engaging in tactics that > are more lethal and challenging than anything one could have ever > imagined or predicted! (bearing this in mind will help take the > traumatic edge off the intensity of this battle; this inevitable > event referred to as 'the dark night of the soul.') > > the most powerful weapon we have in the face of this internal combat > (this incomprehensible civil war of the ego!) is to remain silent. > the steeper the pitch and frequency of thoughts coming, the more > silent and less reactive we can become in the face of them, the > sooner they'll losen their vicious stronghold and impact on our > awareness and begin to finally dissipate...the sooner we'll avail > ourselves to that momentous ultra-shift Threshold of our final > Release. > > above all, always keep in mind that the more intense the battle > becomes, the closer we're in fact approaching the threshold. > therefore take heart and stay the course through the storm. > as with the death of the mortal coil, everyone will also in > time face this death of the ego-Mind.. this dreaded passage > through the *accumulated* hells of our gravest nightmares. > > bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily have to happen as > described here--viz. arranged in a singular and final crescendo, > recapitulating, at once, the historic panorama of all the dark > battles of fear, insecurity and morbidity the ego has engineered. > actually, and more commonly (to my understanding), it will tend > to follow a more gradual, cyclical process. > > there are in fact countless formats for this dark night. > as the saying goes, "there's always a little bit of heaven > in a disaster area," also fits into the scheme of things. > note also there are countless ways these formats can play out, > in terms of numerous 'visitations' having varying durations, > that may or may not in fact lead up to a final blowout episode. > i do believe it's much more common to go through waves of > these episodes, interspersed with periods of varying degrees > of peace and tragic-comedic relief. in fact, the latter format > would seem the most common of all. > > in any event, and irrespective of how it plays out, it's also > important to know that you're not alone in facing this foresaken > dark night of the soul...just as none of us is alone in passing > through the physical death barrier. the fact is, though, neither > kind of death is at all what it appears! ...which recognition comes > inevitably in the aftermath of each, along with the most amazing > recognition of all: that there was nothing but *insubstantial* > smoke and mirrors to all the suffering all along anyway!! > > OM shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 Namaste, This is where the immediate presence of a true Guru is so essential. In Sri Ramakrishna's words "When caught by a cobra, the poor frog can hardly croak thrice before it is gone. However if it is water snake, then both snake and frog will have to suffer long". Om, Anand ---- you wrote: > advaitin , "f. maiello" <egodust@d...> wrote: > > hariH OM! > > > > the following is a response to the concerns of a cyber-friend > > who seems to be showing signs of egoic dissolution. > > > > perhaps some of our List members may benefit from it.. > > > > namaste. > > I'd just like to add some stuff too Frank. In my opinion what is > reassuring is that the same one who looks through your eyes when a > child & as an adult ~ Is the same one who remains after shadow wars > etc. This is the ever same Self which always was/Is here & cannot go. > What dissolves is a lot of wounded beliefs you turn against yourself > due to the abuse of societal & often religious conditioning. > > Who you really are is already always here, & does not go. I think that > is very reassuring. > > Peace, > > Col > > > > > ______ > > > > (note: the individual appears to be confronting a fierce > > battle being waged by a threatened ego, fighting for its > > contol over his awareness (in terms of self-perception.) > > > > _____________ > > > > dear friend: > > > > **the ego itself has no substance**. it is merely a conduit for > > the expression of the Self. the thing to realize is that it can > > take on any form [ranging from behaviour that is predominantly > > satvic to that which is tamasic]. in the case of someone having > > metaphysical-existential insight, the behavior itself is no longer > > the paramount issue. the issue becomes whether or not one is yet > > attached to such behavior; whether or not one is still the victim, > > believeing that the behavior is fatefully defining oneself. the > > fact is, however, it does not and *cannot*; because the behavior > > is really a pre-scripted role [programmed by isvara]. > > > > so that the primary mistake [as the byproduct of social conditioning > > having become a subconscious habit] is that one is hence defined and > > confined by and within the ego. whereas in fact it's really devoid > > of substance(!)...being really only a conduit for divine expression. > > this is what has to be continuously focused on and eventually made > > into experiential awareness. as with anything, it begins with the > > seed of knowledge in the mind, where through life's evolutionary > > processes that seed begins to sprout and grow into living experience > > in the Heart (viz. natural awareness). how long this might take is > > dependent on unknown factors. the best strategy in the midst of it, > > is to secure patience and insight into what's happening [as herein > > described for example]. > > > > it's quite inevitable that in the endgame of the career of the > > soul's drama unfolding--in its arduous trek toward what is afterall > > [incidentally] recognized to be the *NON-EVENT* of Self-realization, > > the ego puts up its fiercest battle yet!...engaging in tactics that > > are more lethal and challenging than anything one could have ever > > imagined or predicted! (bearing this in mind will help take the > > traumatic edge off the intensity of this battle; this inevitable > > event referred to as 'the dark night of the soul.') > > > > the most powerful weapon we have in the face of this internal combat > > (this incomprehensible civil war of the ego!) is to remain silent. > > the steeper the pitch and frequency of thoughts coming, the more > > silent and less reactive we can become in the face of them, the > > sooner they'll losen their vicious stronghold and impact on our > > awareness and begin to finally dissipate...the sooner we'll avail > > ourselves to that momentous ultra-shift Threshold of our final > > Release. > > > > above all, always keep in mind that the more intense the battle > > becomes, the closer we're in fact approaching the threshold. > > therefore take heart and stay the course through the storm. > > as with the death of the mortal coil, everyone will also in > > time face this death of the ego-Mind.. this dreaded passage > > through the *accumulated* hells of our gravest nightmares. > > > > bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily have to happen as > > described here--viz. arranged in a singular and final crescendo, > > recapitulating, at once, the historic panorama of all the dark > > battles of fear, insecurity and morbidity the ego has engineered. > > actually, and more commonly (to my understanding), it will tend > > to follow a more gradual, cyclical process. > > > > there are in fact countless formats for this dark night. > > as the saying goes, "there's always a little bit of heaven > > in a disaster area," also fits into the scheme of things. > > note also there are countless ways these formats can play out, > > in terms of numerous 'visitations' having varying durations, > > that may or may not in fact lead up to a final blowout episode. > > i do believe it's much more common to go through waves of > > these episodes, interspersed with periods of varying degrees > > of peace and tragic-comedic relief. in fact, the latter format > > would seem the most common of all. > > > > in any event, and irrespective of how it plays out, it's also > > important to know that you're not alone in facing this foresaken > > dark night of the soul...just as none of us is alone in passing > > through the physical death barrier. the fact is, though, neither > > kind of death is at all what it appears! ...which recognition comes > > inevitably in the aftermath of each, along with the most amazing > > recognition of all: that there was nothing but *insubstantial* > > smoke and mirrors to all the suffering all along anyway!! > > > > OM shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH > > > > Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-nomail > > To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-normal > > To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to <advaitin-digest > > To to advaitin list, send a blank email to <advaitin-> > > > ------------------ Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 advaitin , anand_natarajan@i... wrote: > > Namaste, > > This is where the immediate presence of a true Guru is so essential. In Sri Ramakrishna's words "When caught by a cobra, the poor frog can hardly croak thrice before it is gone. However if it is water snake, then both snake and frog will have to suffer long". I think there should be no judgements placed on time of learning to let go ... And in my opinion the cobra comes after the water snake even when mighty gurus are with a devotee. The water snake the way you used it in terms of TIME not falsity) can prepare you for the cobra. It can be a gradual process to prepare the devotee to be ready to accept they are infinite & free. Yet you know I do not think that fearsome symbolism like snakes devouring frogs should be used for everybody especially when they are experiencing fear. I think your post could be seen as belittling that person's real transformation .. I rather like Yogananda's symbolic sharing ... I will share it later. No time now. Love, Colette > > Om, > Anand > > > ---- you wrote: > > advaitin , "f. maiello" <egodust@d...> wrote: > > > hariH OM! > > > > > > the following is a response to the concerns of a cyber-friend > > > who seems to be showing signs of egoic dissolution. > > > > > > perhaps some of our List members may benefit from it.. > > > > > > namaste. > > > > I'd just like to add some stuff too Frank. In my opinion what is > > reassuring is that the same one who looks through your eyes when a > > child & as an adult ~ Is the same one who remains after shadow wars > > etc. This is the ever same Self which always was/Is here & cannot go. > > What dissolves is a lot of wounded beliefs you turn against yourself > > due to the abuse of societal & often religious conditioning. > > > > Who you really are is already always here, & does not go. I think that > > is very reassuring. > > > > Peace, > > > > Col > > > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > (note: the individual appears to be confronting a fierce > > > battle being waged by a threatened ego, fighting for its > > > contol over his awareness (in terms of self-perception.) > > > > > > _____________ > > > > > > dear friend: > > > > > > **the ego itself has no substance**. it is merely a conduit for > > > the expression of the Self. the thing to realize is that it can > > > take on any form [ranging from behaviour that is predominantly > > > satvic to that which is tamasic]. in the case of someone having > > > metaphysical-existential insight, the behavior itself is no longer > > > the paramount issue. the issue becomes whether or not one is yet > > > attached to such behavior; whether or not one is still the victim, > > > believeing that the behavior is fatefully defining oneself. the > > > fact is, however, it does not and *cannot*; because the behavior > > > is really a pre-scripted role [programmed by isvara]. > > > > > > so that the primary mistake [as the byproduct of social conditioning > > > having become a subconscious habit] is that one is hence defined and > > > confined by and within the ego. whereas in fact it's really devoid > > > of substance(!)...being really only a conduit for divine expression. > > > this is what has to be continuously focused on and eventually made > > > into experiential awareness. as with anything, it begins with the > > > seed of knowledge in the mind, where through life's evolutionary > > > processes that seed begins to sprout and grow into living experience > > > in the Heart (viz. natural awareness). how long this might take is > > > dependent on unknown factors. the best strategy in the midst of it, > > > is to secure patience and insight into what's happening [as herein > > > described for example]. > > > > > > it's quite inevitable that in the endgame of the career of the > > > soul's drama unfolding--in its arduous trek toward what is afterall > > > [incidentally] recognized to be the *NON-EVENT* of Self-realization, > > > the ego puts up its fiercest battle yet!...engaging in tactics that > > > are more lethal and challenging than anything one could have ever > > > imagined or predicted! (bearing this in mind will help take the > > > traumatic edge off the intensity of this battle; this inevitable > > > event referred to as 'the dark night of the soul.') > > > > > > the most powerful weapon we have in the face of this internal combat > > > (this incomprehensible civil war of the ego!) is to remain silent. > > > the steeper the pitch and frequency of thoughts coming, the more > > > silent and less reactive we can become in the face of them, the > > > sooner they'll losen their vicious stronghold and impact on our > > > awareness and begin to finally dissipate...the sooner we'll avail > > > ourselves to that momentous ultra-shift Threshold of our final > > > Release. > > > > > > above all, always keep in mind that the more intense the battle > > > becomes, the closer we're in fact approaching the threshold. > > > therefore take heart and stay the course through the storm. > > > as with the death of the mortal coil, everyone will also in > > > time face this death of the ego-Mind.. this dreaded passage > > > through the *accumulated* hells of our gravest nightmares. > > > > > > bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily have to happen as > > > described here--viz. arranged in a singular and final crescendo, > > > recapitulating, at once, the historic panorama of all the dark > > > battles of fear, insecurity and morbidity the ego has engineered. > > > actually, and more commonly (to my understanding), it will tend > > > to follow a more gradual, cyclical process. > > > > > > there are in fact countless formats for this dark night. > > > as the saying goes, "there's always a little bit of heaven > > > in a disaster area," also fits into the scheme of things. > > > note also there are countless ways these formats can play out, > > > in terms of numerous 'visitations' having varying durations, > > > that may or may not in fact lead up to a final blowout episode. > > > i do believe it's much more common to go through waves of > > > these episodes, interspersed with periods of varying degrees > > > of peace and tragic-comedic relief. in fact, the latter format > > > would seem the most common of all. > > > > > > in any event, and irrespective of how it plays out, it's also > > > important to know that you're not alone in facing this foresaken > > > dark night of the soul...just as none of us is alone in passing > > > through the physical death barrier. the fact is, though, neither > > > kind of death is at all what it appears! ...which recognition comes > > > inevitably in the aftermath of each, along with the most amazing > > > recognition of all: that there was nothing but *insubstantial* > > > smoke and mirrors to all the suffering all along anyway!! > > > > > > OM shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH > > > > > > > > Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > For Temporary stoppage of your Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-nomail > > > To resume normal delivery of Email, send a blank email to <advaitin-normal > > > To receive email digest (one per day) send a blank email to <advaitin-digest > > > To to advaitin list, send a blank email to <advaitin-> > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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